Mas Ayoob on 9mm Standard vs P+

[Barth]

GATE Self-Defense Forum
Question:
glock 17 SD ammo
hey Mass,
am very undecided about what ammo to use in my glock 17 .My two options are speer gold dot 124 gr and 124+p
do you think will be a big different of performance ,or is about the same ???

Thanks Mass
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Answer:
124 grain standard pressure JHPs have never inspired great confidence in the departments where police were required to carry it.
The 124 grain +P, on the other hand, has performed superbly for NYPD, Chicago PD, and Las Vegas Metro.
With that in mind, I'd strongly recommend the +P version of the 124 grain Gold Dot.

best,
Mas

[PYROhafe]

Well crap! I was hopin for some input from Mass on the 147 grain.... guess I should start getting better with the 124 +p

[wyntrout]

The 124 +P is my favorite and I carry with the Short Barrel Version in my PM9.

I use the 165-gr GDs in my P40 and the 230-gr GDSB in my PM45. For the P380 I get the Buffalo Bore +P Gold Dots... most powerful .380 load... AND Bonded GD's.

Wynn

[sierrajb]

Still a bit retarded on ballistics, but very teachable.

I've heard that the biggest criticism against 9mm (over .45 ACP) was it's fast speed and tendency to go "through" a BG rather than stop him. I'm probably wrong, but I thought if I had a heavier hollow point bullet (147 grain) it would be slower than a lighter bullet (124 grain), and therefore have more stopping power. So, I've been collecting Federal HST 147 grain hollow points instead of 124 grain. Open to answers, but how is 124 +P "better" than 147?

[tv_racin_fan]

I have seen some comparison tests that showed some +p rounds running slower or at the same speed than normal rounds of the same weight.

For instance some Speer Gold Dot 124 grain ammo rated as +p is listed to run at 1150/364 where the normal Speer Gold Dot 124 grain ammo is claimed to run 1150/327. Now someone somewhere forgot how to do math here because the same weight bullet running at the same speed is gonna mathematically impart the same amount of energy.

Not to mention that if +p are so awesome then of course you should run the +p+ instead as it will be more awesomer.

I run either 124 or 147 grain Federal HST. Haven't tried any +p yet and when I finally get my chrono out I intend to run a bit of everything I have thru it.

When I was thinking about what I wanted to run I got some 124 and some 147 grain HST and let my wife run a couple mags of each thru. My reasoning is that I would prefer to run what SHE is comfortable with that way either one will be comfortable with the decision. She said the 147s kicked a bit more but she not something she would not shoot. I let her try out some Buffalo Bore ammo out of my GP100 and the SP101, now that stuff has some kick. She has no interest in shooting that stuff in the SP101 but the GP100 wasn't so bad she wouldn't shoot more of it.

[wyntrout]

Everybody has an opinion and you'll get a lot of those. I try to stick with tried and true and the 124-gr GD's are used with great success by some of the major LE Agencies in the country. I like bonded bullets for SD and the GD's have a great reputation.

The improved BONDED Remington Golden Sabers are good, too... the Bonded ones. BJHP= Brass Jacketed HP, not bonded.

I have those in 230-gr for my large .45 as well as the 230-gr GD's.

Wynn

[chrish]

I'm on the 147gr side of this argument, but not b/c I have an issue w/ the effectiveness of the +P rounds. My decision was based on the various tests out there, common use by many law enforcement agencies, and the fact that I find it more recoil tame than a +P round out of my 3.5" barrel P9. I also carry 147 in my TP9 and my Sig P250. In all cases, I find it easier to shoot, place mulitple shots quicker, etc. I'm just more comfortable w/ it and I don't feel I'm giving anything up ballistic wise. Obviously, if it was just a 'tame' issue, I'd be carrying a .22. Just my 2 cents.

[hotpig]

The Gold Dot 124+P has proven to be very effective against both criminals and by standers in NYC. It is also one of my top selling loads.

However the general trend in the last ten years has been to go to 147gr and the standard pressure 124gr. Sales for +P and +P+ have been spiraling down since the 90's.

The big part of that is modern jhp do not need the velocity and pressure that older bullets needed in order to expand. Why fire a +P out of a compact when a 147 will do as good and not beat up the shooter or gun.

For those that like high pressure rounds do not panic. The mfg have said they will continue to make them so long as the market demands them. The good rounds made in 147 gr also have lighter standard and +P offerings. It is a win for both sides as far as I'm concerned.

[sierrajb]

This conversation will lead me to the shooting range for sure! Plan to take a box of various loads to compare accuracy and comfort. Local range manager frowns on shooters bringing their on watermelons, old laptops, and 2 liter bottles filled with soda. So, not sure how much difference I can tell with paper targets.

[wyntrout]

Function in your pistol and accuracy for you will point you towards the right choice for you. Shoot enough of the one you choose to be assured of reliability in YOUR pistol.

Wynn

[OldLincoln]

There's more than ample evals with water jugs, wet paper, gel blocks, wood, etc on the internet. I suggest just shoot a few. I can't tell much recoil difference in my PM9 between standard & +P.

[sierrajb]

There's more than ample evals with water jugs, wet paper, gel blocks, wood, etc on the internet. I suggest just shoot a few. I can't tell much recoil difference in my PM9 between standard & +P.

Yep! Saw those entertaining vids on YouTube. Very interesting. Like you, my PM9 doesn't feel much different using the practice load found in WWB and +P, but I will definitely check my personal accuracy using 124 v. 147. Gonna be fun!

[joshh]

147gr win pdx for me. not cheap but only for carry anyway. after doing some homemade "ballistic tests" the 147gr performed best out of the pm9. also i feel like the follow ups are faster than the the +p's and i suppose the 147gr wouldnt travel as far as a lighter +p and therefore would be less likely to hit something it shouldnt

[hotpig]

Winchester says that it loses velocity slower than the +P rounds out of sb pistols.

[les strat]

I have been carrying the GD 124gr+p for a year now. The recoil isn't that bad at all actually. Follow up shots are not a problem with my CM9.