How many Lawmen use Kahr for back up or off duty.

[skater4790]

I carry a PM9 in a Mitch Rosen OWB holster for off duty.

[chovyman]

pm 45 daily with two etra mags and a p380 good stuff

[hotpig]

CW 9 off duty, some on duty.

[Jackalope33b]

Just curious...
I see alot of LEO's are carying .45's and 9's while off duty, and some as back up weapons. To each is own. I would think you would want something smaller and lighter like a .380? Any reason you guys are not carrying the Kahr P380?

[jocko]

whenI can carrymy PM9 in 95% of the same plceson my body, why go down in caliber. The P38 which I have is small but so is my PM9..

[jocko]

when I can carry my PM9 in 95% of the same plaeces on my body, why go down in caliber. The P380 which I have is small but so is my PM9..

[Longitude Zero]

From professional experince I have alway looked at the 380 as what you carry when you don't really want to carry a gun...Many small 9's and 45's are only marginally bigger.

I would not trust my life to a 380. PERIOD A 380 is only margnially useful as a last ditch contact weapon. I have seen WAY too MANY 380s fail to penetrate heavy clothing, heck I know an officer that thankfully had a 380 bounce off his hard head with nary more than a scratch. And it was a direct on frontal hit not a glancing blow.

I cannot slam the 380 as a self defense round enough. Sorry but thats my experience.

[jfsjr66]

This is ony a portion of the article the rest wouldn't fit
.25ACP-

# of people shot- 68
# of hits- 150
% of hits that were fatal- 25%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 2.2
% of people who were not incapacitated- 35%
One-shot-stop %- 30%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 62%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 49%

.22 (short, long and long rifle)
# of people shot- 154
# of hits- 213
% of hits that were fatal- 34%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.38
% of people who were not incapacitated- 31%
One-shot-stop %- 31%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 60%

.32 (both .32 long and .32 acp)
# of people shot- 25
# of hits- 38
% of hits that were fatal- 21%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.52
% of people who were not incapacitated- 40%
One-shot-stop %- 40%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 78%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 72%

.380 ACP
# of people shot- 85
# of hits- 150
% of hits that were fatal- 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.76
% of people who were not incapacitated- 16%
One-shot-stop %- 44%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 62%

.38 Special
# of people shot- 199
# of hits- 373
% of hits that were fatal- 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.87
% of people who were not incapacitated- 17%
One-shot-stop %- 39%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 55%

9mm Luger
# of people shot- 456
# of hits- 1121
% of hits that were fatal- 24%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 2.45
% of people who were not incapacitated- 13%
One-shot-stop %- 34%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 74%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 47%

.357 (both magnum and Sig)
# of people shot- 105
# of hits- 179
% of hits that were fatal- 34%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.7
% of people who were not incapacitated- 9%
One-shot-stop %- 44%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 81%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 61%

.40 S&W
# of people shot- 188
# of hits- 443
% of hits that were fatal- 25%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 2.36
% of people who were not incapacitated- 13%
One-shot-stop %- 45%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 52%

.45 ACP
# of people shot- 209
# of hits- 436
% of hits that were fatal- 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 2.08
% of people who were not incapacitated- 14%
One-shot-stop %- 39%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 85%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 51%

.44 Magnum
# of people shot- 24
# of hits- 41
% of hits that were fatal- 26%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.71
% of people who were not incapacitated- 13%
One-shot-stop %- 59%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 88%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 53%

Rifle (all Centerfire)
# of people shot- 126
# of hits- 176
% of hits that were fatal- 68%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.4
% of people who were not incapacitated- 9%
One-shot-stop %- 58%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 81%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 80%




Shotgun (All, but 90% of results were 12 gauge)

# of people shot- 146
# of hits- 178
% of hits that were fatal- 65%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.22
% of people who were not incapacitated- 12%
One-shot-stop %- 58%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 84%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 86%

[Bawanna]

Just curious...
I see alot of LEO's are carying .45's and 9's while off duty, and some as back up weapons. To each is own. I would think you would want something smaller and lighter like a .380? Any reason you guys are not carrying the Kahr P380?

Many departments don't allow 380's for back up or off duty. I've heard of a few recently (rumor only) that used to allow them but no longer do.
Mine does allow them. So far we have 3 of the Taurus 380's. A couple PM9's (wonder who recommended that) and the vast majority are using G30's for backup and off duty since our issue 21's mags will interchange.

I got no use for a 380 myself and very little use for a 9 but thats just my personal mindset. Many are perfectly confident with a 9 and that's perfectly fine, confidence in your chosen weapon is what it's all about.

[Barth]

Many departments don't allow 380's for back up or off duty. I've heard of a few recently (rumor only) that used to allow them but no longer do.
Mine does allow them. So far we have 3 of the Taurus 380's. A couple PM9's (wonder who recommended that) and the vast majority are using G30's for backup and off duty since our issue 21's mags will interchange.

I got no use for a 380 myself and very little use for a 9 but thats just my personal mindset. Many are perfectly confident with a 9 and that's perfectly fine, confidence in your chosen weapon is what it's all about.

I used to train in martial arts with some Hillsborough county sheriffs (Florida).
Some of them used Sig Sauer P232 .380 as back up. But it seemed more common for people to use compact versions of their service weapons in the same caliber. Particularly Glocks where various models could share mags.

[Gunthr]

Hey fellers, Gunthr checking in here from South Florida. I have the K9 Elite... I really dig this gun, but I had second thoughts about not getting the K40. I figured there'd be a substantial difference in conceal-ability. But I'm good with the K9, fast followupshots, I'm keeping it. My impression is that Kahrs 9mm and above are on the approved list for most agencies down here that require approval in their P & P. For me, the glock 26 and 27's were just a little too blocky .... I was afraid I'd start leaving it home.

[echo2011]

Glock 35 Duty Weapon

Glock 26/ Kahr CW9 Off-Duty

[AJChenMPH]

Holy Moly, 1200 officers! We have 26 ? including 5 sgts, and 3 detectives. 1200, I'd be insane in a week.

You obviously haven't looked up NYPD's strength recently. Try 35,000 officers (give or take).

Friend of mine is a plain-clothes street cop in NYPD, and he carries a K9 on duty -- except he was grandfathered in, NYPD no longer authorizes any Kahr pistol (that I'm aware of) for on- or off-duty carry.

[Bawanna]

You obviously haven't looked up NYPD's strength recently. Try 35,000 officers (give or take).

Friend of mine is a plain-clothes street cop in NYPD, and he carries a K9 on duty -- except he was grandfathered in, NYPD no longer authorizes any Kahr pistol (that I'm aware of) for on- or off-duty carry.

I have a hard time remembering the names of my 30 guys. I wonder how many precincts those 35,000 officers are spread out in, still has to be a lot of guys in each one.
Course NYPD probably has 1000 guys like me to deal with their needs and clean up after them. Gotta be tough working with that many guys, course they are probably broken down into groups where they know many of the others at least. I would hope.
I laughed at a Sgt at a nearby city, his wife works here, he said when you see a guy in a uniform getting into a police car (with a key) that you've not met or don't know, you know the dept is getting too big.
Guess he's never been to New York either........

[SGT45]

Glock 37 on duty

PM9 off duty