I'm liking WST more and more

[DJK11]

Needed some time with the PM9 and XD9SC. So I packed 300 rnds. of Berrys plated 124 HBRN with WST 4.8 and 100 with Titegroup 4.3. 400 total.

These are not powder-puff loads and the WST 9mm. is not a book load.

At about 30' the WST combo is a sweet shooter in both pistols. Dead nuts with the Xd just because I shoot that better ( bulls eye) than the PM9. Not much muzzle flip, very low flash and very clean burning.

The Titegroup combo shot a bit low by about 2"-3". It burns HOT, more flash and a bit dirtier but cleaner than WWB or Federal Champion. I'm going to load Titegroup at 4.1 and give that a try. I ran 25 rnds. of 4.1 in testing and felt the PM9 needed a hotter load, the XD ran ok at 4.1

[Bill K]

You read like a guy that knows his reloading stuff. Curious... Would you carry with your reloads or are you of the opinion it is not a good idea should you ever have to use your gun in a SD situation?

Thanks

[DJK11]

Personally, I'm confident to carry my reloads but I haven't. With that said, I have given it some serious consideration. When one finds a load that works and trains with it instinct takes over and you become accustom to the "feel".

I stopped loading light loads because I liked shooting them. I became accustom to light loads and when running full power SD loads I lost accuracy.

[jocko]

Just my opinion but I would think if one considers himself a good reloaded and does allthe right things to prep the case etc and measure the powder and seat the bullet to the depth he wants, that he can produce as good if not better of a dfeense load, certainly years agho when I was reloading for the 9mm for just range fodder with 115 fmj ammo, I never had any issues and it was so so so cheap back then to do so. I think if u hve the good equipment that is made today for reloading that you should go for it. Not sure if some of the great bullets that are on some of the mfgered rounds are availalb e for reloaders, as I am outta touch with that stuff today. Bullets like the power ball or hornady CT bullets, not sure if one can buy just the bullets. U guys know beter than I do of that.

[DJK11]

Jocko,

I'm in agreement with you. I think that's twice now.

[DJK11]

WST and 45ACP

The WST combo I like with the PM45 is Berrys plated 185 HBRN and 4.9gr. at 1.250".

Another great WST load is Berrys plated 230 RN and 4.7 or 4.8 gr. at 1.250". Very accurate.

I found that WST is not compatible with Dillion case lube. Don't get that case lube inside of the cases with WST. I found out the hard way.

[Tinman507]

Jocko,

I'm in agreement with you. I think that's twice now.

Makes you feel like showering doesn't it?

[Bawanna]

I think the issue with using reloads for carry is a prosecutor saying you were premeditated and made your own special killing bullets.

I have no concerns carrying my reloads far as quality goes, just the legal issues which of course would be just one of many.

With factory you can say you carry them cause the guy at Wally World said they were good. You'd probably get off on an insanity clause.

[DJK11]

I think the issue with using reloads for carry is a prosecutor saying you were premeditated and made your own special killing bullets.

I have no concerns carrying my reloads far as quality goes, just the legal issues which of course would be just one of many.

With factory you can say you carry them cause the guy at Wally World said they were good. You'd probably get off on an insanity clause.

Kind of like Charles Bronson in the Vigilante movies.

[dkmatthews]

I've heard people talk about the risk of carrying hand loaded ammo, but I just don't see it. Load your ammo to the reloading manual specifications and keep your ammo in cases documented with the bullet, powder & primer and you're good to go. Remember, we don't carry to engage in a "fair" fight. We carry to survive an attack from the BGs.

[Bawanna]

I've heard people talk about the risk of carrying hand loaded ammo, but I just don't see it. Load your ammo to the reloading manual specifications and keep your ammo in cases documented with the bullet, powder & primer and you're good to go. Remember, we don't carry to engage in a "fair" fight. We carry to survive an attack from the BGs.

That makes perfect common sense to most of us here BUT try to make a bottom feeding, ambulance chasing lawyer understand that you aren't the spawn of Charles Bronson in a courtroom where common sense isn't allowed or understood.

I agree with you 1000% and in a shooting even there will be so many obstacles it will be like a mine field. This would only be one tiny issue in the scheme of things.

[bapple]

I've heard about the loading your own defense ammo thing too.

And also before I get into that, I LOVE WST in 40 and 45. For 40, it gives the most mild recoil I have ever felt. Many of you are probably used to the snappiness of 40, but the WST really makes it mild. In 45 for competition, I run 4.3grs WST with a Berry's 200gr bullet.

For me, the BEST defense powder I can find is Blue Dot. It's dirty for mid range loads and doesn't burn completely, but at the upper end, it's amazing. This is my carry and home defense load...

124gr Hornady XTP 9mm with nickel-plated case. Loaded with 7.9grs Blue Dot. The listed velocity on Alliant's site is 1238 fps!!!! I know I will never get that out of my Kahr with the short barrel, but that's still packing some serious energy.

155gr Hornady XTP .40 with nickel-plated case. Loaded with 10.2grs Blue Dot. Listed velocity is 1221 fps, and I'm using a Beretta 96 vertec, so the velocity would probably be similar out of my gun.

In the Kahr for carry, I have a mixture of my XTP reloads, Hornady Critical Defense, and Winchester PDX1. You never know how all hollow points will act so for me, it's good to have them all ready to go since they all feed flawlessly. I will most likely change the Critical Defense to critical duty though, because the Critical Duty is heavier (135gr vs 115) and has given many people good ballistic results.

[Mudcat]

I really like WST and use it quite a bit. I think it and Winchester powders in general get looked over a lot of times. They have always given me excellent performance and consistent results from batch to batch.

I always keep a good supply of my reloaded SD ammo around. I like the Speer Glod Dot and Hornady XTP bullets. I load to the same FPS as the factory ammo. I use them more for checking function of a certain bullet profile in a new or unknown gun. I can load and shoot a hundred of my reloaded SD ammo for function check for the same money I can buy a box of 20 from the factory.
Though I almost always carry the factory ammo in gun and spare magazine. I really don't think the legal problems would be that great as long as the ammo you load is not some over powered or the bullet has some modifications to it. But for that cost and possible expense I will buy factory.

[jg rider]

I think the issue with using reloads for carry is a prosecutor saying you were premeditated and made your own special killing bullets.

I have no concerns carrying my reloads far as quality goes, just the legal issues which of course would be just one of many.

With factory you can say you carry them cause the guy at Wally World said they were good. You'd probably get off on an insanity clause.

I agree with Bawanna. If they can, I suggest to people to carry what their local L.E. agency use. The agency position probably states that it's safe for innocent bystanders etc. In the days when expanding ammo wasn't as reliable as they are now, people loaded their own, and some were IMO as good or better then what we have now.
But all it takes is some prosecutor trying to make headlines or a bottom feeder that sees dollar signs to ruin your day.
The other thing that can bite people is if their gun has too light of a trigger pull.
Or if you used a revolver with the hammer cocked. (Deeper primmer hits than D.A.). Does anyone remember stories of when L.E.O.s carried revolvers and their department had the S.A. hooks hammers removed because of liability issues?

I seem to remember that Massad Ayoob's book "In The Gravest Extreme" had a bunch of do's and don'ts

[Sliebl]

I think the issue with using reloads for carry is a prosecutor saying you were premeditated and made your own special killing bullets.

I have no concerns carrying my reloads far as quality goes, just the legal issues which of course would be just one of many.

With factory you can say you carry them cause the guy at Wally World said they were good. You'd probably get off on an insanity clause.

Bawanna,
Let me first say that I don't disagree with your position on only carrying factory loaded ammunition, as that's what I do as well, but I'm not sure that there have ever been any court cases that went against the shooter due to the use of hand loaded SD rounds.

I was wondering if you are aware of any court cases where a self defense shooting, involving the use of reloaded ammo, was the basis of charges held against the shooter?

-Steve