Proper prep of a new kahr

[Rainman48314]

why?

u might be right, if u really feel that strong, why do u even own a kahr??? Are u stating the other companies don't have issues??. I have owned 3 kel tec , had to send them back atotal of 17 tmes before I could get them running good enough to sell them, and I think I know alittle aobut making some guns work "if it is minor". Owned one Ruger lcp, that had to go back to get right, and Ruger makes good stuff, but are u going to tell me that their total recall of their SR9 and over 50K of the lcp is nothing major??? Every one of those Ruger owners back then was BETA testers as far as I was cncerned... Still over on the elsi pea forum on the main page is two reports of defective lcp, one 3 weeks old with broken peaces, another with a photo showing a cracked polymer frame. None of these guns are fool proof. Ruger turns one out ever 52 seconds, so sh-t is gonna happen, never good when it happens to you the owner but Ruger will take care of it.. Mine now fixed I will swear by it but before it was fixed I swore at it..

What GB did to his gun, he did to HIS GUN, most of the kahr 45 required nothing at all. Ur always gonna find the negatives on a gun forum, that is where pepole come with issues. Kahr is not exempt from that as u well know. Greg could have also done what most would have done with a gun that gives issues. He could have sent it back but he choose to do it his way. Some people can make things work without sending them back but that is their option also. I am not alibing for kahr, I have always felt the P380 is a gun with issues. It is getting better but IMO it is not there yet, but again kahr has over 20K of them out there and we read of a few dozen on this forum with issues so we assume they are all like that.

I have said this before, if u get a kahr with issues and you are not comfortable with their fix or have lost faith in it, then peddle it and find the gun that pleases u,. as there are to many other good guns out there to.. But I don't put my head in the sand thinking that the next brand is going to be better. What we expect is sometimes not what we get.

And to me anyways it does seem the bigger the framed gun the better they seem to work. Kahr K9 comes to mind..

oops: forgot had to send my G19 back once for slide lock issues.Today one of my best guns for accuracy.

Thanks for the response, Jocko. Please don't feel you have to be Kahr's spokesmen. I wish an occasional Kahr employee would chime in on our threads.

I own a Kahr because 1). I could not find a Kimber Solo. Wait lists here are 20 men long. 2.) It met most of my criteria on paper. 3). A friend in another state owns one and strongly recommended it to me.

Why I would only cautiously recommend one to a friend can best be seen in the comparison I did in "My Kahr PM9 versus my Ruger LC9" thread. I'll add that if the choice is between a CM9 and the LC9, its a horserace with Kahr by a nose.

I understand that Greg wrote about his gun and that others could ignore the issues in their gun or send it off to Kahr. You must also have seen the tremendous interest. I think it became a sticky for good reasons.

We can all have valid opinions about guns we own. The Ruger I owned, an SR9c, was a great purchase. Ditto for the Lc9. My Kahr..hard work right out of the box. Am I done with issues? Not quite yet. Am I hopeful, sure. The biggest puzzle is that the Kahr design is very mature, yet there are nagging issues. Its like (dripping) water torture. It suggests Kahr doesn't listen to their customers as voiced in this forum. I would love to be wrong.

addendum:

I would never buy a KelTec.

Ruger's problems are a great example for this discussion.

1. They came very early in the product life cycle
2. They were fixed in the design.

With Kahr, the PM9 was introduced in 2003. A full 8 years later, the problems are still there too often.

[jocko]

RAINMAN; found this on the kimber site. I didn'tknow this , maybeu did.


Firearm Zealot


Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,408 Notes from doing some research.

-The first models out for sale had a couple bugs but they were apparently worked out.

-Its striker fired with a smooth 7lb trigger.

-Due to the small short slide, it was built heavier for its size. You have to shoot at least 124 grain premium loads through it for it to cycle properly. 115 grain loads will not be powerful enough to cycle the slide properly and it will malfunction.

-It like all the other stuff Kimber makes needs a break in period.

-Its a bit bigger than a Ruger LCP but smaller than a Kimber Ultra Carry compact 3" 1911 sized frame.

-MSRP for both the all stainless model and the two tone aluminum model is $725 making it an expensive gun that is expensive to shoot (regarding it needs premium ammo to work right plus the break in)


I did notice line #4 is about no differentr than any kahrs. BREAK IN NEEDED
__________________

[Rainman48314]

RAINMAN; found this on the kimber site. I didn'tknow this , maybeu did.


Firearm Zealot


Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,408 Notes from doing some research.

-The first models out for sale had a couple bugs but they were apparently worked out.

-Its striker fired with a smooth 7lb trigger.

-Due to the small short slide, it was built heavier for its size. You have to shoot at least 124 grain premium loads through it for it to cycle properly. 115 grain loads will not be powerful enough to cycle the slide properly and it will malfunction.

-It like all the other stuff Kimber makes needs a break in period.

-Its a bit bigger than a Ruger LCP but smaller than a Kimber Ultra Carry compact 3" 1911 sized frame.

-MSRP for both the all stainless model and the two tone aluminum model is $725 making it an expensive gun that is expensive to shoot (regarding it needs premium ammo to work right plus the break in)


I did notice line #4 is about no differentr than any kahrs. BREAK IN NEEDED
__________________

I've read this and much, much more. The Kimber breakin-in is 24 (twenty-four rounds). It possibly will have an issue before the year is out, that comes with it being year number 1. I would find it inexcusable for the issue(s) to remain after eight years of production a la PM9.

Of the several range reports and magazine shooting reviews I have read, everyone was able to use standard 115 gr FMJ to practice.

List price is now $744 but once the first few are sold, it should level at a street price of $599-639

[jocko]

can u elaborate on the 8 years PM9 issues..

after reading old lincoln post of gun (basically 1911: and issues. iot did show the

kimber with 64 problematic owners out of 148 which is an amazing 43%. Why do u think this solo is going to be any less problematic?. Just asking for you seem to want to show the PM9 yet as a problem gun,,, and today it is a fine gun, sure issues will show up, but we sure haven't read about them like we did a few years back. They today seem to be running really great.

I just seem to read a sense of negativity in your thoughts on kahrs, and I guess my question which has been unanswered, is why own such a gun if u feel so strong about it negatives. I am not knocking the kimber solo, as it is way way to early to say anything positive or negative about it but if it followes the percentages of the 1911's which is definitely kimbers bread and butter gun then now does one defend the solo..

Just askin...

Probably well over 250K++ of PM'9 out on the market, I just think ur way over exagerating kahrs PM9 issues, way over, course just my opinion and I am not a kahr spokesman. I am a kahr owner of 3 of which 2 have been super,one starting to get much better. I have never really beat the tom tom with kahrs. I have stated many times, give any gun u like one shot back to the factory to get right, after that if not right peddle it and move on. I think if u wanna research that comment I have stated that many times...

[Rainman48314]

can u elaborate on the 8 years PM9 issues..

after reading old lincoln post of gun (basically 1911: and issues. iot did show the

kimber with 64 problematic owners out of 148 which is an amazing 43%. Why do u think this solo is going to be any less problematic?. Just asking for you seem to want to show the PM9 yet as a problem gun,,, and today it is a fine gun, sure issues will show up, but we sure haven't read about them like we did a few years back. They today seem to be running really great.

I just seem to read a sense of negativity in your thoughts on kahrs, and I guess my question which has been unanswered, is why own such a gun if u feel so strong about it negatives. I am not knocking the kimber solo, as it is way way to early to say anything positive or negative about it but if it followes the percentages of the 1911's which is definitely kimbers bread and butter gun then now does one defend the solo..

Just askin...

Probably well over 250K++ of PM'9 out on the market, I just think ur way over exagerating kahrs PM9 issues, way over, course just my opinion and I am not a kahr spokesman. I am a kahr owner of 3 of which 2 have been super,one starting to get much better. I have never really beat the tom tom with kahrs. I have stated many times, give any gun u like one shot back to the factory to get right, after that if not right peddle it and move on. I think if u wanna research that comment I have stated that many times...

I think we Kahr owners need to push Kahr so that guns made in 2011 are better than the same gun made in 2003.

The ongoing problems are the mags and fit of the slide stop.

In the thread asking owners what they think Kahr should change, 2 of 3 said Quality Control.

IF you were the Manager of QC at a Arms Company selling SD/Carry guns, would you let any out the door with "crappola in the striker channel" or a mag that wouldn't drop?

I'll comment more on the Kimber after I own one. I can tell you that they consider a SOLO (not 1911s) broken-in after just 24 premium rounds.

[jocko]

good for kimber. 24 rounds is fine with me They can say 5 for al lI care, as could Kahr. Kahr is just being realistic. Most kimber owners seem to think their guns need a good break in.. fit of the slide stop has not been an 8 year issue. It isn't today but it has happened. I had 3 replaced on my Para carry 9, . If there is one big issue with 1911's it is in the slide stop area. very common knowledge. It just happens. Might be lack of quality control but certainly not the end of the world. Just IMO kinda hard to brag about kimbers quality control when that one survery showed a 43% return rate of kimbers. I hope ur solo when u get it works perfect, again it is not an indication that "kimber" solo's are right on the money, just that yours is, or might be. If ur referring the some PM9 mags not dropping and u consider that a problem, IMO yuor "petty": picking.

My two cents and I can see u want to argue as much as I seem to what to also. so for me I'm done with this thread, . Just very strange that one would own a kahr and yet hammer it. when that nice survery of guns shows by ol lincoln showed every brand with percentages that no gun maker should be proud of (especially kimber) but is just a fact of gun makers products. I haven't seen the perfect gun yet ..But yet u seem to want to stand in line for a gun that is made by a company showing a 43% rate of return and this being kimbers first entry into the striker world and small ass guns. Ur braver than I am..good luck.

not the first tme I have heard of kimber owners saying the solo must have 124 grain premium ammo through it.It was so stated on the elsie pea forum a few times. Certainly if the manul states premium ammo then one doesn't have alot of leg to stand on with over the counter 115 grain ammo acting up. About like rohrbaugh, They tell you what to shoot in the gun, use anything else and it is ur problem.If one knows that going into the buy then it is the owners fault if he bit-hs afterwards.


quote:In the thread asking owners what they think Kahr should change, 2 of 3 said Quality Control

QC is going to be brought up in any good questionaire for any brand gun. that just kinda makes sense. Every mfg has some areas that need cleaned up or we would not be seeing 43% kimber return rate from such a high dollar precision gun maker. My audi as much as I love the car certainly in some areas lacks QC as far as I am concerned. again I am still waiting on the perfect car. Oh thats right were talking about guns and not cars. QC is different?????

[Rainman48314]

good for kimber. 24 rounds is fine with me They can say 5 for al lI care, as could Kahr. Kahr is just being realistic. Most kimber owners seem to think their guns need a good break in.. fit of the slide stop has not been an 8 year issue. It isn't today but it has happened. I had 3 replaced on my Para carry 9, . If there is one big issue with 1911's it is in the slide stop area. very common knowledge. It just happens. Might be lack of quality control but certainly not the end of the world. Just IMO kinda hard to brag about kimbers quality control when that one survery showed a 43% return rate of kimbers. I hope ur solo when u get it works perfect, again it is not an indication that "kimber" solo's are right on the money, just that yours is, or might be. If ur referring the some PM9 mags not dropping and u consider that a problem, IMO yuor "petty": picking.

My two cents and I can see u want to argue as much as I seem to what to also. so for me I'm done with this thread, . Just very strange that one would own a kahr and yet hammer it. when that nice survery of guns shows by ol lincoln showed every brand with percentages that no gun maker should be proud of (especially kimber) but is just a fact of gun makers products. I haven't seen the perfect gun yet ..But yet u seem to want to stand in line for a gun that is made by a company showing a 43% rate of return and this being kimbers first entry into the striker world and small ass guns. Ur braver than I am..good luck.

not the first tme I have heard of kimber owners saying the solo must have 124 grain premium ammo through it.It was so stated on the elsie pea forum a few times. Certainly if the manul states premium ammo then one doesn't have alot of leg to stand on with over the counter 115 grain ammo acting up. About like rohrbaugh, They tell you what to shoot in the gun, use anything else and it is ur problem.If one knows that going into the buy then it is the owners fault if he bit-hs afterwards.


quote:In the thread asking owners what they think Kahr should change, 2 of 3 said Quality Control

QC is going to be brought up in any good questionaire for any brand gun. that just kinda makes sense. Every mfg has some areas that need cleaned up or we would not be seeing 43% kimber return rate from such a high dollar precision gun maker. My audi as much as I love the car certainly in some areas lacks QC as far as I am concerned. again I am still waiting on the perfect car. Oh thats right were talking about guns and not cars. QC is different?????

Jocko, I'm not here to argue. You love your PM9, I like my PM9. Fair enough?

I have high expectations for expensive products and I will treat Kimber the same way, however, I can not compare a gun in its first year of production with one in its 8th year. I can't compare a Solo to anything until I have lived with it a month or so. The one Kimber I own is a Rimfire Target in .17 Mach 2, also a $700 gun which has been flawless in the first 250 rounds.

My final word, so you may have the last if you choose, is that any survey with a self selected audience has to be suspect. To do it right, you must define what constitutes a "problem" and then sample from all gun sales, not just those volunteering on an internet forum.

Have a good weekend.

[Iron Worker]

Here are some helpful suggestions to set your new kahr up before heading to the range as compiled by Jocko, with the help of the forum members.



Proper prep of a new Kahr


Here are some helpful suggestions to set your new Kahr up before heading to the range, as compiled by Jocko, with the help of the forum members.

#1. Read and then reread your owner’s manual. There are some real MUST DO's in there that if you don't you will have issues.


#2. Clean your new gun; don’t assume Kahr did it. They don't and there could be crud in places where it should not be. Take that slide off and look for the little hole in the bottom of the slide. That is your striker channel clean out hole. Insert your spray cleaner nozzle in there and spray away. Fluids will come out both ends.

Now, with one finger, pull back on the striker at the back of the slide and continue to spray in that hole and also spray clean from that breech hole also. You have now cleaned that striker channel without disassembly. DO NOT OIL THE STRIKER CHANNEL. Refer to the Kahr Tech section. The 2nd sticky down is KAHR LUBE DIAGRAM. Point #9 shows the clean out hole and this is the best lube chart for any semi auto to.


#3. Grease the slide rails, or if you prefer a particular gun oil, fine. Just lube the slide, or, better yet, go to the Kahr Tech section and hit on the Kahr lube section. This will save a lot of explaining. If you have a Dremel, I would suggest a good polishing of the already smooth feed ramp, and inside the chamber also. You can't hurt anything with a nice polish job. The lube chart is the 2nd sticky on this KAHR TECH thread. It is simply the best.


#4. Now, with an empty gun and no magazine, rack the slide about 500 times as fast as you can. This helps break-in the pistol without shooting.


#5 Take your magazines apart and recheck to see that they are properly put together right, too. Then, if you have some 600+ grit auto sand paper, just roll it up like a pencil and polish the under side of the feed lips on your magazines. Do not oil the magazines, wipe with a silicone cloth at most.


#6 To check to see if you have any issues with the slide lock lever hitting the rounds in the magazine, take the slide off and insert the slide lock lever, then reinsert a loaded magazine. Check to see if the top round is hitting the slide lock lever and moving it upward. That is a NO-NO.


#7. Break in the gun with FMJ ammo. Forget about the defense stuff until it is running right. Practice close, stay 7 yards and under, get a good grip on the gun, and watch your thumb to see that it is not accidentally hitting the slide lock lever and causing premature slide lock-back. Inadvertently hitting the slide lock lever while shooting is a known cause of premature slide-lock back.


#8. Don't worry about the accuracy of the pistol until you have the gun running reliably with both types of ammo. Sometimes the 200 round break-in is necessary, but most of the time, if the gun is properly prepped, it is not.


#9. Be aware that you can limp wrist these little guns far easier than the bigger ones. Keep your shooting at 7 yards and under.


#10 Kahrs have a long but totally smooth trigger system. GET USED TO IT. The more rounds down range the better your groups will be to. Remember you and the gun have to mate up correctly for all things to work right. A very good test of your shooting skills with a Kahr is to buy a half dozen Snap Caps and throw them in with 30 rounds of FMJ range fodder. Let someone load your magazine for you, so you don't know if any Snap Caps are in that magazine. I can assure you, it will show your shooting errors BIG TIME.


#11. Use a good gun cleaner spray. Gunscrubber is good stuff, but very expensive. I will tell you what works for me and harms nothing on the gun, polymer included.

#12. If ur new gun gives some shooting issues, let another good shooter try your gun out, if he can duplicate your issues, then you can assume the issues are gun related and not shooter related. We call that eliminating the POSSABILITIES. Kahr can fix their guns but they cannot fix the SHOOTER.. Do not panic in the first 200 rounds of shooting your new kahr. Give the gun and the shooter both time and rounds down range for both to mate up properly. If u follow the above tips, your kahr will perform perfect, or for that matter any semi you own

Go to Napa and look for 3M high pressure NON-CHLORINATED brake cleaner. Part #08880, sells for about $2 a can, about 1/3 the cost of Gunscrubber. This is the most powerful spray cleaner coming out of a can that I have ever used. It cleans thoroughly dries fast. It will not harm your polymer Kahrs period.

I would suggest wearing rubber gloves or just use common sense. If it gets on your skin, it will dry your skin out, as this stuff takes the oil out of everything it comes in contact with. Gunscrubber will also be hard on your skin, so use common sense. This stuff will clean in places that you might think needs to be taken apart, but not on a Kahr. Everything is right there in front of you, just spray away, then re-oil where parts were originally oiled.


We will continue to update this section in hopes that later on down the road we can just direct a new owner to this thread and not have to keep repeating ourselves.

Good luck and just shoot it like you stole it, and many thanks to those who have contributed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Information on the slide lock lever and the slide lock spring that should be helpful to all the Polymer kahr shooters... submitted by WYNTROUT

That slide stop spring shouldn't move. The screw is a T-5 Torx (In the P380) and needs tightening. Use the correct screwdriver and tighten the screw just until you feel resistance. Remember the screw is metal and the frame you're screwing it into is polymer... PLASTIC. Don't overtighten... you'll strip the screw and then you need a NEW FRAME. That little screw never actually tightens, so lightly snugged is best. Best thing is to not mess with that little screw at all. If you strip the threads out of the polymer frame, you have some options. Send it back to kahr and they will fix it somehow. OR take some super glue or finger nail polish and coat those threads on that little screw and reset it in the polymer fram. SNUGGED. andyou willbe good to go. This is a fix that will work.

The torx screw in the Polymer kahrs EXCEPT the P380 is a size T6 The P380 is a size 5 torx. obtainable at sears.. or harbor freight even.

When you insert the slide lock, have the release lever at about 4 o'clock and tilted to the right so that you get the pin just to the left of the spring and push it ASIDE, not bend it inward, as you insert the pin. When it's about halfway in (and going into the peanut-shaped hole on the barrel lug) orient the lever up to go through the cutout in the slide. The slide lock should click into place and the lever should rebound back up when you depress it. If the spring is secure, there should be downward pressure by the free end of the spring on the little shelf for it on the inside of the slide lock lever. This should stop all of your random early slide locks.

MAGAZINE FIX: some have reported that their 2nd or 3rd round tends to nose dive in their kahrs. Here is what is happeing, as the magazine follower is moving upward when it hits that area where about round 2 or 3 is still in the magazine, that follower is now in that magazine slot hole where the magazine button locks into it. That magazine button is actually stopping that follower from sliding past it without any hindrance. Now I can tell you the fix but if you will just go to the sticky by GB6491 on CW fixes, and scroll down, u will see in with a great photo tutorial how to fix this issues. It is a peace of cake. A quick test to see if u have this issue, is unload the magazine, take the floor plate off the magazine and pull the spring and follower out of the magazine. Now insert the empty magazine in the gun until it locks in place. Now with the spring still under the follower insert it slowly in the magazine upward and feel for a stoppage before the follower gets to the top of the magazine. If u feel stoppage, then go to GB 6491 sticky and see how easy this fix is. OR pull the follower out and sand the right side of the follower back alittle where it comes into view in that magazine slot opening, smooth it with 600+ grit paper and retest, It will not take much to get clearance.. I would even recommend one to pre-test this out before going to the range. will take 5 minutes to test out. Get ur gun prepped right and all the little tid bits of information that this forum can supply before that first range trip and it will be a big success... This magazine fix is usually the culprit in 90% of all NOSEDIVE ISSUES.

I hope this will get your P380 and any other Polymer kahr, back into action and stop those early slide locks.

Well its cool that you took the time and effort to type all this stuff up. I just got off the phone with KAHR and they will be sending me a pre paid box or what ever through Fed Ex. ..... Its just with my fat Sig Sauer P-229 its performed perfectly from the 1st shot till present 19 years later. If they fix it and works flawlessly great. I was going to buy the S&W M&P compact but it was just as fat as my Sig. This CW.40 wouldn't feed the first rnd or 5 and 4th releasing the slid lock or sling shoting it. I told the tech that he asked for cereal # . Now I have a authorization number and away it will go.

[Rainman48314]

90+ days with a PM9

I picked up my PM9 with night sights on 4/22. We are about 3 months into the ownership.

In week one, I would have rated it B-. I was unable to rack the slide, load the mag (needed a MagUla), drop a mag, or get 100% reliability. The grip felt like a cheese grater. I used gloves to shoot it. Somewhere along the way, my recoil assembly broke (lost the fitted nut). Only because I knew, or rather, trusted, that things would improve with break-in, was I able to rate it as high as B-

Fast forward to today. I give it an A. I am strictly rating my own gun and ignoring the few who have problems wirth theirs. Hopefuly, those issues disappear soon.

It took about 75-100 rounds for me to be comfortable with the grip, after I added a QwikGrip, the gun became a joy to handle. After about 250 rounds, I was getting 100% reliability with FMJ and JHP ammo. I have shot both 115 gr and 124 gr. I prefer the 115 gr for my SD carry ammo. It is Federal Hi-Shok 9BP which comes in boxes of 50 for only $16.95 plus shipping.

I am able to chamber a round by racking the slide without using the slide stop lever to release the slide. My 6 round mag drops freely, the 7 rounder less so but I haven't used it much. I have gotten familiar with the trigger and gained accuracy in the last 60 days. I have had a chance to compare it to a Ruger LC9 and the Ruger falls short, but only in one area, the trigger. I called it longer than War and Peace.

I have tried several holsters and settled on a Comp-Tac Minotaur MTAC. I got it in Chestnut and my Saturday order ARRIVED today. I have holsters that work pretty well, but none are as professionally finished and NO ONE deliver as fast.

Looks like the PM9 is now my EDC. Hope you newer owners hang in long enough to see how sweet this gun can be once its broken-in. I have a total of 350-400 through mine as of today.

[Jackalope33b]

The "Proper prep of a new kahr" thread worked for me. Had a "few" issues at first. Now my baby purrrrrrrs.. Reading alot of the issues that guys were having on here had me worried. But now Im happy. Take your time, have patience, keep your gun wet like you like your woman, and you should be good to go

[Husky44]

Since this isn't a locked thread, I'll add my lesson learned here as well. When performing step 6, make sure you understand the issue with re-inserting the slide lock lever in relation to the spring. If you're going in sequence here, you might not have read the section on reassembly, or watched the video yet. WATCH THE VIDEO BEFORE YOU PUT THE SLIDE LOCK IN!!!! It's very easy to screw this up in step 6, where you're inserting the slide lock without the slide installed on the frame. You will bend the spring and your gun won't cycle properly!

[medic579]

Here's mine on it's first cleaning before even shooting it.

[Bawanna]

Beautiful. Nice orderly fashion. I gotta know, what is that round thing in the lower right corner. Like a fold up screwdriver maybe. Can't quite make it out. Eye strain from looking for Iiiiiiiiiiiiiitts.

[medic579]

That's a CRKT Crimson Trace Range Bag tool. http://www.crkt.com/8970

[medic579]

Its made specifically gor tge laser site it has two Allen wrenches in it.