CW45/P45: Flush fit magazine - UPDATED

[Mr. Zero]

There is actually a tab on the front of the mag that you can pull on, it's not as readily accessible as a larger bumper pad, but it will work.

[gb6491]

There is actually a tab on the front of the mag that you can pull on, it's not as readily accessible as a larger bumper pad, but it will work.

Mr. Zero,
I believe Wynn is referring to VMO's modified magazine pictured in post #21 of this thread.

BTW: I'd like to thank you for super input to this thread and I look forward to reading your range report.

There has also been a lot of good input posted from others. I look forward to reading the results of their continued efforts as well.

I have decided to go with the Kahr follower and spring in my modified magazine for now. It functions perfectly that way and I like having the slide lock back. I have some extra Kahr followers now, but need to order some more springs before proceeding with cutting either down to gain an extra round. I'd also like to find the 7 round Metalform follower pictured in this post (if it's available in .45ACP size): Glock Talk - View Single Post - New Colt Defender 9mm + Questions
I'm interested in seeing how it would work with springs I have on hand.

On another note, I found the quoted posts below of interest. They are in response to this question (from this thread: http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistol...45-owners.html) in regards to the length of the PM45 grip: "I am curious to know if you can get three fingers on the grip or is your pinky hanging off and under the mag?"

I have a small to medium sized hand. My little finger is about half on the mag. It would depend on the size of your hand. From the bottom of the trigger guard to the bottom of the mag. is about 2 1/4 inches.[IMG]file:///D:/DOCUME%7E1/xx/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

the very bottom of my pinky is level with the bottom of the mag plate(at least before I sold it...I miss that pistol). I don't have very big hands though.

I find them of interest becuase with the modified Officer's magazine installed the CW45 is very similar in height to the PM45 with the OEM plastic floor plate installed. Seeing this, I wonder if a CW45 Covert project would be worth the effort.

With the plastic-based magazine, my hand fits perfectly, but without the magazine, my pinky is half on the the grip, so a flush fit wouldn't be bad if the leading edge of the floor plate didn't protrude and make my little finger uncomfortable or pinch it....
Wynn

Now a PM45 with a flush fit magazine would be a different story and might make a Covert project more worthwhile

Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

Holding my ruler exactly as you have in your picture my PM45 measures
1 7/8" to the bottom of the mag opening on the frame. So we're talking a tad over 3/8" less grip length.

[VAguy]

gb,

Thanks again for taking the time to research and put all this information online. Last eve I modified a magazine as you suggested and it was super easy and I believe is going to work out great. Bench checking of numerous manual cycling of slide with FMJ ammo worked perfectly, I now need to put 100 through her for a real function check. I used the stock Kahr spring and follower in mine.

Couple of tips for anyone else who may purchase and modify a mag for use in their CW45. Make sure you disassemble both mags and remove slide from pistol so that you can clearly see the engagement of the magazine latch in the magazine well. I only had to remove maybe 1/32" of material from the top of the mag latch catch hole to get the same fit as the stock mag....hardly any material at all. Also, when trimming down the top lips of the mag I found it helpful to use a blue Sharpee to mark the amount of material you wanted to remove. The blue Sharpee on black mag shows up very well so you can get just the right amount removed. Don't forget to check and double check how it looks in the pistol with regard to height and factory mag.

Following the most excellent reference pics gb provided here it was hard to go wrong.

-vaguy

[gb6491]

Holding my ruler exactly as you have in your picture my PM45 measures
1 7/8" to the bottom of the mag opening on the frame. So we're talking a tad over 3/8" less grip length.

Thanks Bawanna. I think that's a significant difference from the 2 1/4 inches with the plastic base in the quote I posted above for the PM45's height. IMO, all the more reason to have flush (or near flush) fit magazines available for these pistols.
Regards,
Greg

[gb6491]

VAguy,
You're welcome and thank you for your insightful input as well; excellent tips for doing the modifications.
That's a good looking setup you're toting there (darn, I wish I had a waistline like that again). What holster is that?
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

I agree both on the significant difference and the desire for flush magazines and the waistline. I had one like that long long ago in a previous life. Now I got a 6 pack but it ain't in my abs.

[VAguy]

What holster is that?

It's a High Noon Mr Softy. Recently I switched to appendix carry and it works great.

[gb6491]

It's a High Noon Mr Softy. Recently I switched to appendix carry and it works great.

Thanks!

[Mr. Zero]

gb,

Couple of tips for anyone else who may purchase and modify a mag for use in their CW45. Make sure you disassemble both mags and remove slide from pistol so that you can clearly see the engagement of the magazine latch in the magazine well. I only had to remove maybe 1/32" of material from the top of the mag latch catch hole to get the same fit as the stock mag....hardly any material at all. ]

I did my modification using Chip Mc Cormick match grade officers mags, and I did not have to modify the mag release hole in the mag tube, it fit and worked perfectly.

-Zero-

[wyntrout]

When you use the Kahr follower, you give up a round of capacity. That's why I'm trying to use the Kahr tube and a minimal metal follower. I just wish Kahr made a metal floor plate for the .45's.
I should get my Colt Officer's Model 6-round SS magazine to play with Monday. I don't have many real metal-working tools... just saws, files, and my DLT... Dremel-Like Tool. Not too many things will work with that tough stainless steel.
I think the Colt follower looks like picture#1. The Wilson follower seems hollow... maybe metal. I hope I can get these parts to work together and give me a fairly flush fitting 6-round magazine for the PM. I'll have to wait and see.

Looking at the Colt magazine picture, it looks like it is a 7-rounder... there's 5 holes and then it looks like enough space for two more rounds...?

Wynn

[Mr. Zero]

Here's my RANGE TEST:

I took the CMC Match grade officers 7 round flush fit mag I altered to the range today. Unlike my bench test, it failed to lock back the slide on the last round, it functioned flawlessly otherwise.

When I returned from the range, I took the CMC mag apart and noticed that the bottom tab that activates the slide stop, was all chewed up on the tip where it had been hitting the bottom edge of the feed ramp. Not acceptable.

I have exchanged some information with someone on the boards here, who told me that they use stock Wilson 47D mags in his PM45 without a problem. So while I was at the range with my friend, I borrowed one of his Wilson magazines. It slid in and locked into place without problem, it even clears the bottom of the slide (no grinding required). However, it would not lock back the slide either, not even on the bench, and when I loaded them to shoot, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds jammed every time. The loaded round would pop up and drive the nose of the bullet into the top of the chamber and lock up the gun. After that, it functioned fine (except for no lock back).

Seven rounds would be great, but flush fit is the goal, so I may look back to the beginning of the thread and try what the OP had done.
Or I may be sticking with stock Kahr magazines until someone smarter than me gets this thing figured out.

On the good side, other than the mag experimental issues, the gun ran great, this thing is a real shooter. And the A-Grip makes it into a new gun, absolutely, incredibly comfortable and controllable.

[gb6491]

... I didn't have any luck with the Chip McCormick Officers 7 round magazine. On the last round the follower would move up and forward of the mag a little higher than the chamber, causing a mis-feed. I had forgot about this being the reason CMC magazines were not recommended for use in aluminum frame 1911...

When I returned from the range, I took the CMC mag apart and noticed that the bottom tab that activates the slide stop, was all chewed up on the tip where it had been hitting the bottom edge of the feed ramp. Not acceptable.

These replies seem to support my reasoning for trying the Metalform magazine or, more precisely, the Metalform nylon follower. I have seen the Devel/McCormick style follower issue (moving out of the magazine/frame damage) before in alloy frame guns. I wanted to avoid this with the poly frame. The nylon Metalform follower is of a style that is less likely to move out of the magazine or damage the frame. However, while it feeds fine, it will not lock the slide back.

Seven rounds would be great, but flush fit is the goal, so I may look back to the beginning of the thread and try what the OP had done.

I totally agree. A reliable, flush fit magazine was my original goal with this modification. To that end, I am using a Kahr follower and spring in my modified magazine. The combo is still a six round magazine, but the follower will not damage the frame, it feeds without issue, locks the slide back, and achieves a nearly flush fit in the pistol. It's what I carry in my CW45 now with some OEM mags as reloads.
Regards,
Greg

[OldLincoln]

Have you guys looked into the Check-Mate patented follower? Unlike the MCC is has a front shroud that keeps it from sliding forward and hitting the ramp. I should have already received the 3 7rd I ordered a couple weeks ago for my Colt.

Tip: On one of the 1911 forums, they said to order it with the extra strength spring which you can only get from the factory @ $22. Since, I discovered you can buy them at Top-Gun for $17 and it looks like they carry them all. If you want to pursue them, you probably want either the 7rd Compact Check-Mate Follower Hybrid lips in Blued ($22) or Stainless ($24).

[Mr. Zero]

[QUOTE I totally agree. A reliable, flush fit magazine was my original goal with this modification. To that end, I am using a Kahr follower and spring in my modified magazine. The combo is still a six round magazine, but the follower will not damage the frame, it feeds without issue, locks the slide back, and achieves a nearly flush fit in the pistol. It's what I carry in my CW45 now with some OEM mags as reloads.
Regards,
Greg[/QUOTE]

It's funny, when I put the Kahr spring and follower in my modified CMC mag, it only holds 5 rounds.

I may try trimming the top end of the CMC spring so it can be used with the Kahr follower and see if it is spring coils taking up too much space or the follower legs. If that doesn't work, I am thinking about trimming the legs on the stock follower to see if I can get the mag to hold 6 rounds.

If I could get the modified mag I have to hold 6 rounds that would be great, I only need ONE for carry. I would love to find a full length 1911 mag that I could use for back up with the Kahr, AND for my 1911. After talking with a member here, who uses Wilson 47D's in that mannor, I had high hopes. But after trying them in my gun and having feeding issues, I am back to the drawing board.

I am also interested to know if anyone has tried the Cobra mags.


-Zero-