9mm Defense Ammo

[littlebear]

so 147gr 9mm bullets dont snap/kick anymore than 124gr standard loads??? how do they compare ?

[Rubb]

so 147gr 9mm bullets dont snap/kick anymore than 124gr standard loads??? how do they compare ?

124+p and 147 grain Gold Dots have about the same recoil in a PM9…IMO

[jg rider]

so 147gr 9mm bullets dont snap/kick anymore than 124gr standard loads??? how do they compare ?

Look at my test results and pics. The standard Win RA9T 147 gr. is the mildest felt recoil of all I tested. With 100% expansion. Standard Fed.147 gr. HST was the second best. Then came the Fed. 124 HST. All the + p ammo I tested were too uncontrollable for quick double and triple taps. I tested Gold dots included.
The heavier the bullet the lighter the felt recoil

[Rubb]

Look at my test results and pics. The standard Win RA9T 147 gr. is the mildest felt recoil of all I tested. With 100% expansion. Standard Fed.147 gr. HST was the second best. Then came the Fed. 124 HST. All the + p ammo I tested were too uncontrollable for quick double and triple taps. I tested Gold dots included.
The heavier the bullet the lighter the felt recoil

Try a S&W 500 w/ 275 grain then again with 400 grain or a snubby 38 w/ 130 vs. 158...bet that won’t hold true.

[jg rider]

Try a S&W 500 w/ 275 grain then again with 400 grain or a snubby 38 w/ 130 vs. 158...bet that won’t hold true.

We"re talking 9mm out of a Kahr here . The recoil pulse is longer and softer with the heavier bullet it doesn't have the snap of the lighter faster bullet.

And no a 124+P and a standard 147 don't have the same recoil out of a Kahr

[DKD]

Sorry folks....I call BS....it is only preceived recoil cause no matter how you try you can't change the laws of physic's....similar caliber say for example purpose a 9mm in standard to standard factory or reloads, when you increase the mass of the slugs you have to increase recoil. Remember your high school or college physic's "equal and opposite reactions" thingy...?
When the mass of an object at rest is increased it takes more energy to move that object, which in turn generates the same force in the opposite direction.

Now let us complicate things, lets not forget that is a valid statement of fact when you are using the same pistol. If you change the weight of the weapon by increasing its weight, you will preceive less recoil, although the forces will be identical for any given weight bullet. Now class chew on thgat for a while...there will be a quiz on this in the morning.

[HDoc]

Sorry folks....I call BS....it is only preceived recoil cause no matter how you try you can't change the laws of physic's....similar caliber say for example purpose a 9mm in standard to standard factory or reloads, when you increase the mass of the slugs you have to increase recoil. Remember your high school or college physic's "equal and opposite reactions" thingy...?
When the mass of an object at rest is increased it takes more energy to move that object, which in turn generates the same force in the opposite direction.
.

Only if you are keeping velocity constant. The same charge will move a heavier bullet, only slower.

The general formula for the kinetic energy is
where
v is the velocity of the bullet and m is the mass of the bullet.
My head is beginning to hurt.

[MikeG]

Sorry folks....I call BS....it is only preceived recoil cause no matter how you try you can't change the laws of physic's....similar caliber say for example purpose a 9mm in standard to standard factory or reloads, when you increase the mass of the slugs you have to increase recoil. Remember your high school or college physic's "equal and opposite reactions" thingy...?
When the mass of an object at rest is increased it takes more energy to move that object, which in turn generates the same force in the opposite direction.

Now let us complicate things, lets not forget that is a valid statement of fact when you are using the same pistol. If you change the weight of the weapon by increasing its weight, you will preceive less recoil, although the forces will be identical for any given weight bullet. Now class chew on thgat for a while...there will be a quiz on this in the morning.

Might want to factor in velocity to those equations...124+p's are accelerated a good bit more than 147's are.

[Rubb]

We"re talking 9mm out of a Kahr here . The recoil pulse is longer and softer with the heavier bullet it doesn't have the snap of the lighter faster bullet.

And no a 124+P and a standard 147 don't have the same recoil out of a Kahr

What I outlined in red was what I perceived to be a pretty broad statement.
I understand you were talking 9mm….that’s why I said try the others...if you do...the statement in red won't hold true.

I didn’t say they had the same recoil... I said about the same “In My Opinion”
You're right they are not the same but... "about the same" on paper but.. do we give a crap about...paper?
recoil (600x379).jpg

Calculator Here
Gold Dot Details Here


If you feel that much difference between 124+p and 147 gr. Gold Dots that’s fine..we’re allowed to perceive recoil differently...it’s all good.
Not trying to flame here...they just feel about the same to me...that's all.

[AIRret]

Amen!! And isn't speed the important thing.
Of course if you keep every thing else constant.
WHICH NEVER HAPPENS IS A REAL SHOOTING!!!!!

[jg rider]

What I outlined in red was what I perceived to be a pretty broad statement.
I understand you were talking 9mm….that’s why I said try the others...if you do...the statement in red won't hold true.

I didn’t say they had the same recoil... I said about the same “In My Opinion”
You're right they are not the same but... "about the same" on paper but.. do we give a crap about...paper?
[ATTACH]5662[/ATTACH]

Calculator Here
Gold Dot Details Here


If you feel that much difference between 124+p and 147 gr. Gold Dots that’s fine..we’re allowed to perceive recoil differently...it’s all good.
Not trying to flame here...they just feel about the same to me...that's all.

I believe I stated that the 147gr. had less felt recoil, and I'll stick with that. I'm not a mathematician. I know what I and others know. The 147 gr. has a long slow push rather then the sharp felt recoil of the faster velocity lighter bullet.

My tests were done to find the most reliable defense round out of a K9 and a PM9. After that I was looking for the most controllable ones that would allow quick aimed follow up shots. I tested lots of stuff Fed HST standard & +P, Tactical. Win. RA9T, 127+P, Bonded, Black Talons. Rem. Golden Saber and Speer ? gr. +P. Just because that's what everyone back then thought was the cat's meow because the NYPD was using it. All the +P stuff was too uncontrollable for fast follow up shots, and besides the standard stuff did a more than adequate job.

The top performers were the heavier 147 gr. Win. RA9T and the Fed. HST. Out of 5 shot tests they had 100% expansion, the lightest felt recoil. The other thing is the heavier bullet have better penetration if bone or muscle are incountered

You should do a Google search and see what others are saying about heavy vs. light bullets

[MBFD]

I'm making the transition from new PM9 with 250 rds of range ammo to getting a reliable SD/CD round for CCW. I have had 0 problems with my PM9 and feel it's ready to CCW.
I called Kahr and they said to buy the HP with the roundest profile, with the seams inside for less loading problems. When I mentioned 124+P vice 147GR I didn't get an answer. They really don't want to give a manufacture name and round that works the best with the PM9.
I'm sure they know of a round that works the best (124+P or 147), doesn't need the slide stop shaved, has round profile etc and are not allowed to tell us.

[Raulf]

Hornady Critical Defense, for my CM9, it's my EDC.

[jocko]

HELL, KAHRS ARE NOT AMMO SENSITIVE, SO MOST ANY DEFENSE ROUND WILLBE PERFECT. iF B Y CHANCE U GET NE THAT ACTS UP,JUST GO TO ANOTHGER BRAND. I can see why ahr would not tell u one brand over another, as they test shoot all brands and what ight work in my PM9 just might not work in ur PM9, so the best way is test um out, find what works perfect and just stick with it..

[MBFD]

I went to Gander Mountain to buy 124 +P and 147 standard. Unfortunately they didn't have as large of a choice as I would have thought. I didn't care what brand, I just want to test the feel of the two rounds. I was hoping to find FMJ for the test (cheaper).

But they did have Speer Gold Dots. Plus the 124 +P says that it's for short barrel.
I think that this gives some credibility to the "with +P's not all the gun powder is used before leaving the barrel".
These rounds were NOT cheap - $28 for 20.
I will get back to this thread with my results. Which will be totally unscientific and more feel like!