New PM45 Range Test

[Bawanna]

Hi Kramm,
I went and read the background on your problem. Something that struck me was that your first session was without problem, but your second was problematic; also that you had taken the magazines apart between sessions. I'd like to suggest that you check the orientation of the springs in your magazine in regards to the follower..
Proper orientation is pictured below on the right:

I just now purposely installed the spring as pictured on the left and my first attempt to hand feed from that magazine resulted in a failure pretty much as pictured in your earlier post tonight (for reference the same magazine with a properly oriented spring hand fed the same rounds without incident).
It might be worth a quick look.
Regards,
Greg

I tried to find that original post too, guess I didn't go back far enough. I think you are definitely onto something here. Makes perfect sense for the scenario. I think people tear apart magazines all to frequently in my simple minded opinion. Nothing wrong with that an nothing bad on Kramms part but I'm a firm believer in if it works don't mess with it.
Kramm, I spent my formative years in Bowling Green, I still have lots of aunts, uncles, cousins and such over most of the state. I should be there now.

[PigButtons]

Top of the barrel is scuffed

I'm not for certain but I've never seen slide scuffing as far back on the top of the barrel as on kramm's. Usually the slide scuffing stops about half way back, at least on my PM9 and other semi-autos that I own. The reason is, I believe, that the barrel should be separating from the slide because of the slide lock pin hole acting on the slide lock pin as it travels to the rear.

Look at picture 2 of 4 on kramms post and with the slide almost half way back the barrel is still in contact with the inside of the slide. This should not be. Below is a pic of my PM9 and you can see the slide scuffs stops in the first half inch. I think kramm's slide is not finished on the inside, or the barrel is improperly sized, or the slide stop hole in the barrel is not machined properly.

[Bawanna]

I'm not for certain but I've never seen slide scuffing as far back on the top of the barrel as on kramm's. Usually the slide scuffing stops about half way back, at least on my PM9 and other semi-autos that I own. The reason is, I believe, that the barrel should be separating from the slide because of the slide lock pin hole acting on the slide lock pin as it travels to the rear.

Look at picture 2 of 4 on kramms post and with the slide almost half way back the barrel is still in contact with the inside of the slide. This should not be. Below is a pic of my PM9 and you can see the slide scuffs stops in the first half inch. I think kramm's slide is not finished on the inside, or the barrel is improperly sized, or the slide stop hole in the barrel is not machined properly.

I think unlocked at that point with a cartridge standing up in the mag wouldn't that be pushing the barrel up? Should be just rattling around at that point. From the wear it looks like it happened alot though so you could be correct. I thought GB6491 really hit when he noted that the first trip out it worked fine, then after cleaning it didn't work good at all. Have to wait and see what Kramm has to show us on those mags I guess.

[kramm]

I took pics. but for some reason I can't get them to download into the puter. I did do a little looking today. I was remembering all of the trouble with mags. dropping out that were posted. Got me to thinking , so I locked the slide back took the mag.out and looked at the mag. catch. Mine protrudes into the mag. well about 3/16". I then took a mag. apart and slipped the tube in, then I ran the spring in. Guess what, the spring would catch on the on the mag. catch as it even protrudes into the mag. tube about a 1/16". Next I slipped a round into the tuto see if it would youch it. it didn't. I'm thinking that maybe some of what is happening. The spring catching on the mag. release causing improper tension. I live in Troy just down the road from Bowling Green. Yeah I don't go into Ill. much just because of their laws, if i do I unload and lock every thing up in the trunk. Thats what the cop that I took my ccw class from told me to do.

[kramm]

Bawanna,tried to put a spring in reversed and it is kinda tough to do I'm sure I have mine. It would be the set up on the right side of your pic.

[wyntrout]

That barrel hood scuffing looks like the result of the cartridge jamming the barrel up higher as the slide moves back forward and then scuffing. Look at picture #1.
Wynn

[Bawanna]

I took pics. but for some reason I can't get them to download into the puter. I did do a little looking today. I was remembering all of the trouble with mags. dropping out that were posted. Got me to thinking , so I locked the slide back took the mag.out and looked at the mag. catch. Mine protrudes into the mag. well about 3/16". I then took a mag. apart and slipped the tube in, then I ran the spring in. Guess what, the spring would catch on the on the mag. catch as it even protrudes into the mag. tube about a 1/16". Next I slipped a round into the tuto see if it would youch it. it didn't. I'm thinking that maybe some of what is happening. The spring catching on the mag. release causing improper tension. I live in Troy just down the road from Bowling Green. Yeah I don't go into Ill. much just because of their laws, if i do I unload and lock every thing up in the trunk. Thats what the cop that I took my ccw class from told me to do.

Troy? Right in my old neighborhood. Still got lots of people around there. Hope GB6491 is around. That mag release is perplexing to me. When the mag is loaded the spring is all compressed, so not touching the release button, and you say it's not touching cartridges. So what happens when we insert a empty mag. If it's touching the spring it should take pressure off the follower a bit as it locks in but maybe not much. Hmm. I can't help but think about what GB6491 said. It shot ok first trip now it doesn't. What changed. Gotta go back and read the patients symptoms again.

[kramm]

Pigbuttons,I noticed that too. Seems like my little pistol needs some fine tuning. What really has me confused is that it worked so well for the first 150 rounds. Not a hick-up any where. All I did was clean it. Next time out one thing after another.

[Bawanna]

My K40 went back after about that many rounds 150 or so. It was feeding and all but just wouldn't quite go into battery. I had to smack the back of the slide and then itwas fine. It was close enough it would even fire but not good situation. Kahr told me the barrel was peening. I gave up my black slide for a new stainless slide to save time and a new barrel and it's been trouble free since. But it wasn't doing all the jamming stuff yours seems to be doing.

[kramm]

With a round under pressure from the spring it might be possible for it to get pinched into the catch. This is with a full mag. what do you think?

[kramm]

Any way it's going back. I called Kahr this afternoon. Talked to Shawn. It will be picked up tomorrow.

[gb6491]

Hi Kramm,
I'm sure they will get it running right for you.

Not a hick-up any where. All I did was clean it. Next time out one thing after another.

I'm still curious (as you are) about why all the problems the second time out.
Trying to eliminate variables and as the pistol has already been back to Kahr, I should have asked this before asking about the magazine springs: is it possible you have some out of spec ammo? You did mention you were running different ammo from one session to another.
Regards,
Greg

[a.squibload]

You guys are a valuable resource, but what the heck, one day and 397 posts???
You are making me want a 45 version. The 40s had a bad rep for a while as I recall,
mine is a later model so maybe I lucked out.
One reason I was always a revolver guy is the level of firearms expertise and
magic skills needed to make some autoloaders perform. Hope you find the answer soon.
(Try setting flame to powder in a rusty can while chanting and rattling bones under
full moon, usually helps.)

Wyn: get stitches, apply alcohol to kill germs, systemically if necessary.

Baw: it's "hypothesis", after Hypotheseus, Greek god of guessing, I guess.

I had new magazine trouble with PM40, only one of them caused a problem and
I suspect it was used. Kahr replaced, no problem. Other one was simple, baseplate
was not installed properly, was too far forward with a gap at the back, looked funny.
I was gonna take one of 'em apart anyway, right? Fine now. Will make note of spring
position next time in case it applies.

PS: tongue: how did you get a pic of my girlfreind???

[kramm]

Hi GB6491 & A.squibload,

I guess ammo could be out of specks, though I don't think so. I have bee using store bought ammo. Winchester White Box,Federal & Remington. All have been 230 gr. FMJ. I have some Hydra shock that I could run through it but I hate to just shoot them up. My G36 has a mag. full and I did shoot 5 rounds through the Kahr on the first outing with it. No problem there. I'll tell ya if I didn't have 4 other auto's and have field stripped them, mags also, and put back together and have them take off just fine I would think I messed something up. I just don't understand.
Maybe A.Squibload has the answer,Voodoo.

[Bawanna]

You guys are a valuable resource, but what the heck, one day and 397 posts???
You are making me want a 45 version. The 40s had a bad rep for a while as I recall,
mine is a later model so maybe I lucked out.
One reason I was always a revolver guy is the level of firearms expertise and
magic skills needed to make some autoloaders perform. Hope you find the answer soon.
(Try setting flame to powder in a rusty can while chanting and rattling bones under
full moon, usually helps.)

Wyn: get stitches, apply alcohol to kill germs, systemically if necessary.

Baw: it's "hypothesis", after Hypotheseus, Greek god of guessing, I guess.

I had new magazine trouble with PM40, only one of them caused a problem and
I suspect it was used. Kahr replaced, no problem. Other one was simple, baseplate
was not installed properly, was too far forward with a gap at the back, looked funny.
I was gonna take one of 'em apart anyway, right? Fine now. Will make note of spring
position next time in case it applies.

PS: tongue: how did you get a pic of my girlfreind???

I'm trying to figure out if this is praise or we just got slammed. Only the tongue knows for sure.