PM9 doesn't shoot straight

[wtim]

Hello!

New to the forum. Like the title says I have a PM9 that I bought right after Christmas that doesn't shoot straight. I have over 400 rounds through it and after the break-in period it's fired every time. Unfortunately I can't ever hit the target in the same spot with any regularity. I thought I was an awful shot with this little gun so I bought a Crimson Trace laser sight to help. No good. Even my friends and my son can't shoot this gun accurately so I think I can say it's not me. I love it for it's concealability but I'd like to be a little more accurate with it. Do you think it's something about the gun itself or are we all holding it incorrectly?

Any ideas?

[sas PM9]

Hello!

New to the forum. Like the title says I have a PM9 that I bought right after Christmas that doesn't shoot straight. I have over 400 rounds through it and after the break-in period it's fired every time. Unfortunately I can't ever hit the target in the same spot with any regularity. I thought I was an awful shot with this little gun so I bought a Crimson Trace laser sight to help. No good. Even my friends and my son can't shoot this gun accurately so I think I can say it's not me. I love it for it's concealability but I'd like to be a little more accurate with it. Do you think it's something about the gun itself or are we all holding it incorrectly?

Any ideas?

wtim:

Define "the same spot every time".

At what distance are you shooting?

What experience do you have pistol shooting?

Are you getting the same "bad" results shooting from a "rest"?

The long trigger pull takes some getting used to, you have to "unlearn" the technique used for many other pistols.

Are you grouping shots low and left?

-steve



BTW, Welcome to the forum, sorry you are having difficulties.

[Kidrod]

Hello, while I am also new to this site I have been shooting for many years. In my humble opinion I believe the problem is not the gun. The PM9 is about as accurate as your gonna find for such a small package. How far away is your target, how large is your target? I am much more accurate with my 1911 and even better with my .357 Ruger 6 inch barrel than I am with my PM9. There are many folks more qualified here than I that might be more helpful.

[jocko]

OK

Hello!

New to the forum. Like the title says I have a PM9 that I bought right after Christmas that doesn't shoot straight. I have over 400 rounds through it and after the break-in period it's fired every time. Unfortunately I can't ever hit the target in the same spot with any regularity. I thought I was an awful shot with this little gun so I bought a Crimson Trace laser sight to help. No good. Even my friends and my son can't shoot this gun accurately so I think I can say it's not me. I love it for it's concealability but I'd like to be a little more accurate with it. Do you think it's something about the gun itself or are we all holding it incorrectly?

Any ideas?

if u do this, u will prove to urself it is u or it is the gun. buy a half dozen snap caps. throw them in with 30 rounds of ammo. let someone other thanu load the magzines foryou and let them at their choosing decide if they want 1 or 2 or more snap caps in the magazine. Now shoot it at 7 yards and see the results. My bet is ur anticiapting the "bang" thing and the snap caps will show this. I have no idea either what your accuracy is also. I can tell you I have my PMJ9 with over 32K rounds through it and at 7 yards I am damn lucky to have 3" groups--dam lucky. It is wha tit is, and I am what I am. ... I am not a great shot, but it is not the gun, it is me. As much as I think I am not jerking that damn trigger when I hit one of those snap caps, I damn near break the fokking trigger in anticipation of the BANG thing.

I would be very surprised to see that it is a gun issue, but no doubt anything can happen.. U can't give a friend or ur son a lahr and expect them to shoot it in the same hole. No gun that I know of has the looooong trigger pull of a kahr. It certainly takes some time and rounds to get used to that trigger. Some never do, I know I have not mastered it. that being said I accept my accuracy with this gun . It is plenty good enough to defend myself, but again if I had to hit a beer can at 25 yards, I would be in deep sh!t. but that is not my worry. If ur expecting same hole accuracy, u need to study this forum more and u will see hundreds of targets by owners at 7 yards and under and nadda same hole stuff, basically 3 to 5" groups even is the norm. I hesitate to say it is you definitely, but I surely hate to say it is the gun to. If ur right handed and ur groups are mostly left and low, that is shooter error. I would be very surprised to hear ur shooting high alot. U might be shooting to far back to. U got the best gun kahr makes,but get beyond 10 yards and then ur shooting skills have to kick in with a kahr. IMO it is a defense gun, not a true target pistol, U have a small ass frame gun, extrely light in weight, short sight radius, none of these things are positives for 2" or so groups IMO--UNLESS ur one hell of a shooter

[wtim]

Target is seven yards away, usual silhouette: about 16 inches wide by 24 inches high. I'm shooting everywhere within the torso bullseye. I would say my "grouping" is around 16 inches. It's still within injury range (Of the target/bad guy) but it's nothing like my Glock.
I did have issues with low and to the left until I started using the pad of my index finger to pull the trigger rather than the first joint which I was prone to do as the gun is so small.
I've been shooting off and on since 1980. More "on" since the kids got older so semi regularly since 2005. Shooting from a rest tends to improve my aim slightly but not by much. Even using the laser I still end up hitting far from where I had the laser pointed i.e the center bullseye.
I'm not sure what to say about the long trigger pull...after the first couple hundred rounds I didn't really notice it.

[sas PM9]

Target is seven yards away, usual silhouette: about 16 inches wide by 24 inches high. I'm shooting everywhere within the torso bullseye. I would say my "grouping" is around 16 inches. It's still within injury range (Of the target/bad guy) but it's nothing like my Glock.
I did have issues with low and to the left until I started using the pad of my index finger to pull the trigger rather than the first joint which I was prone to do as the gun is so small.
I've been shooting off and on since 1980. More "on" since the kids got older so semi regularly since 2005. Shooting from a rest tends to improve my aim slightly but not by much. Even using the laser I still end up hitting far from where I had the laser pointed i.e the center bullseye.
I'm not sure what to say about the long trigger pull...after the first couple hundred rounds I didn't really notice it.

wtim:

Well, I don't know what else to suggest except to continue to practice slow and deliberate aimed shots. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

Sight in the CT laser over a sandbag or some-such rest to get it zeroed in, then practice, practice, practice; familiarity breeds confidence.

I generally expend no more than 50-100 shots per session; more than that I'm just wasting resources, I'm not getting any better.

Almost all of us with a PM/CM series have a difficult time getting our accuracy up to where we would like it to be; small framed short barreled handguns are notoriously difficult to master. Short sighting radii and two fingered grips are problematic; old eyes (in my case) don't help either.

Keep on keeping on.

-steve

[wtim]

I find (oddly enough) that I'm more accurate with it one handed than the text book two handed stance and I added a Pearce magazine extension which does wonders for the feel of the gun in hand.

[deadeye]

When I fist got my CM9 I couldn't even hit the target let alone the bulls eye. Because of the ammo shortage I bought a Gamo P25 co2 pistol. I can shoot it and practice in my garage cheaply. Son of a gun! Long story short. The CM9 is very accurate. I wasn't.

[sas PM9]

I find (oddly enough) that I'm more accurate with it one handed than the text book two handed stance and I added a Pierce magazine extension which does wonders for the feel of the gun in hand.

wtim:

I also have the Pierce extensions on two of my mags for the extra grip. I go without at times of deep concealment, but otherwise use them.

Your one handed statement leads me to believe that your two handed grip needs improvement. Logically two hands should be more stable.

With the CTL you will see every heartbeat and twitch in your hands project onto the target. Concentrate on keeping the dancing red dot as still as possible while pulling the trigger s l o w l y. Keep it at 7-10 yards until you are grouping better, then move it out a little at a time. Improvement will come with practice.

-steve

[wtim]

Thanks Steve I'll try that. Isn't going beyond 10 yards pushing it with a three inch barrel?

[sas PM9]

Thanks Steve I'll try that. Isn't going beyond 10 yards pushing it with a three inch barrel?

wtim:

Not if you can continue to improve and gain confidence.

Look at this video to be enlightened to the capabilities of this weapon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Av9COfLB_Y

-steve

[deadeye]

I did cheat a little. I bought a laser bore sighter and found my sights were right on at 7 yds. I had the same problem with the P25 at first. Missing the complete target.
I have a friend who is a retired U.S. Marshall. He told me how to position my body, my hands and use the trigger. After 1000 practice shots with the P25, was putting 16 pellets in a 4" radius. Took the CM9 to the range and the difference was remarkable. Practice.

[sas PM9]

wtim:

This is actually the video I was looking for.

Hickok mentions that the gong across the way is at 80 yards.

Pretty capable for a 3" barrel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ipPZT8qCiM

look at the 5 minute mark.

-steve

[LorenzoB]

PM9 doesn't shoot straight

I don't remember who it was here, but they got a barrel without any rifling. Also I recall someone else had the crown of the barrel off center. So there is a SMALL chance it could possibly be the gun.

I am accurate with my CW9, but I am still trying to get used to my PM9. At 10 yards, I have no prob with 10" groups, but my CW9 is much tighter than that. I believe my problem is the combination of the shorter sight radius and the pinky hanging below the grip. And the long trigger pull too.

I found that when I used the pad of my trigger finger, I actually introduced side movement. The grip is so small that my hand had some muscle tension just trying to hold my finger pad on the trigger. Dry fire (with a laser) and watch for smear wild experimenting with your grip and trigger finger placement. I believe that it is more important to have a relaxed trigger hand than to have the pad of your finger on the trigger. Some well known shooting experts have also said that it is acceptable or even better to put the trigger at or near your first knuckle on double action guns. Look it up. My point is that there is no "one way" it must be done. experiment and find what is best and most comfortable for you and your hands (everyone is different). Anyway, it definitely works for me with my CW9 and hopefully soon for my PM9.

[yqtszhj]

Thanks Steve I'll try that. Isn't going beyond 10 yards pushing it with a three inch barrel?

Yes to the 10 yards statement.

I think you answered your own question with the one hand statement. The long trigger takes some getting used to. BUT when used to it you'll shoot it relatively well.

really focusing at 5-7 yards I'm at 2-4 inch groups when i concentrate really hard. I'm better with the Pierce extension installed.