For those that had followers break, how many rounds before they broke?

[Tilos]

I think the interference could be detected with a 1/4 inch width of paper inserted with the mag on a slide back assembled gun.
Drag on the paper during removal would indicate the barrel ramp is touching the follower.
Not something I tried...yet.
And to expand on the fix, after doing it to all my followers, I think the relief only needs to be across the front, not all the way around the curved portion, which only further weakens that portion of the follower that is already thin.
jmo

[PATarheel]

I purchased a CM9 last Saturday. I had planned on running 200-300 rounds through on Sunday but at just over 50 rounds (124gr FMJ), noticed the follower had cracked. Took me several days to get through to Kahr however I did today and they said they will send me another follower but if it happens again, that I'll need to send in the pistol for repair. After reading this thread, it seems that as though that may be inevitable. I have a 2nd mag on its way so plan to get back this weekend to see if the same things happens.

[getsome]

Hello PATarheel and welcome to Kahrtalk....Sorry you have the cracked follower deal but if you will go back in this thread to post #14 that another new Kahrtalk member Bang Button posted and see how he used a dremel tool to smooth the front corner off the follower where the feed ramp hits it....

I think Bang Button is on to something with that mod and it should fix the issue without grinding off the ramp which is what Kahr will do if you send it back... I don't know why it took so long for someone to figure this out but I think that is what needs to be done to prevent the contact and subsequent breaking of the plastic follower....That mod makes perfect sense to me as you aren't removing any materal from the top where the bullet contacts the follower but lower down where the contact is happening....

Thank you Bang Button for posting and showing good detailed pictures of what you did...Hopefully Kahr will eventually correct the problem but until then if you have a pistol with this problem I would definitely give it a try....Looks promising and is a very simple fix to an aggravating on going problem....There are lots of smart new folks here and I'm glad they are willing to think out of the box sometimes....This mod is a no brainer really but until Bang Button posted it nobody had come up with a solution other than major surgery.....Good luck to you and again welcome aboard...

[T0RMENT]

Hello PATarheel and welcome to Kahrtalk....Sorry you have the cracked follower deal but if you will go back in this thread to post #14 that another new Kahrtalk member Bang Button posted and see how he used a dremel tool to smooth the front corner off the follower where the feed ramp hits it....

I think Bang Button is on to something with that mod and it should fix the issue without grinding off the ramp which is what Kahr will do if you send it back... I don't know why it took so long for someone to figure this out but I think that is what needs to be done to prevent the contact and subsequent breaking of the plastic follower....That mod makes perfect sense to me as you aren't removing any materal from the top where the bullet contacts the follower but lower down where the contact is happening....

Thank you Bang Button for posting and showing good detailed pictures of what you did...Hopefully Kahr will eventually correct the problem but until then if you have a pistol with this problem I would definitely give it a try....Looks promising and is a very simple fix to an aggravating on going problem....There are lots of smart new folks here and I'm glad they are willing to think out of the box sometimes....This mod is a no brainer really but until Bang Button posted it nobody had come up with a solution other than major surgery.....Good luck to you and again welcome aboard...

+1...agree.

However, this isn't an anomoly. This is apparently relatively common among Kahr owners. My question is, why isn't Kahr addressing the issue whether it be modifying any future followers manufactured or a small modification to the ramp before the gun is distributed for sale? Seems like it would be more cost effective all away around to fix the problem before it leaves the factory rather than sending out known issues and waiting for the customer to send it back. Right now I feel that Kahr is overwhelming their customer service department, paying for unnecessary shipping costs to/from for repairs, lowering customer confidence in their products that could lead to lost future sales. Fix the problem, stop band-aiding the damn thing.

[codegeek]

Re: For those that had followers break, how many rounds before they broke?

+1...agree.

However, this isn't an anomoly. This is apparently relatively common among Kahr owners. My question is, why isn't Kahr addressing the issue whether it be modifying any future followers manufactured or a small modification to the ramp before the gun is distributed for sale? Seems like it would be more cost effective all away around to fix the problem before it leaves the factory rather than sending out known issues and waiting for the customer to send it back. Right now I feel that Kahr is overwhelming their customer service department, paying for unnecessary shipping costs to/from for repairs, lowering customer confidence in their products that could lead to lost future sales. Fix the problem, stop band-aiding the damn thing.

I agree. I wish Kahr would address this and the nose dive issue. One can only surmise that they are making enough money that they are willing to deal with these problems on a case by case basis.

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[MBSL500]

+1...agree.

However, this isn't an anomoly. This is apparently relatively common among Kahr owners. My question is, why isn't Kahr addressing the issue whether it be modifying any future followers manufactured or a small modification to the ramp before the gun is distributed for sale? Seems like it would be more cost effective all away around to fix the problem before it leaves the factory rather than sending out known issues and waiting for the customer to send it back. Right now I feel that Kahr is overwhelming their customer service department, paying for unnecessary shipping costs to/from for repairs, lowering customer confidence in their products that could lead to lost future sales. Fix the problem, stop band-aiding the damn thing.

+2 Well said.

[Tundra5.7]

I noticed my followers broken somewhere between 175 and 225 rounds. The last several rounds were 135 grain +P Critical Duty...that might have done it in! I chose to send my CM9 back to Kahr after they sent me a new follower. Basically Kahr payed for shipping both ways and I had my pistol back in 8 days. IMO that is damn good CS.

[SDGlock23]

My CM40 doesn't break them any longer because the feed ramp on the barrel was slightly shortened and rounded so it doesn't make contact with the follower under recoil. But when it did, I put a new follower in (sent free by Kahr) and I didn't make it through two magazines before it broke. Of course 180gr bullets going around 1100 fps probably didn't help matters, but it was nearly instant. Lesser recoiling rounds the followers would last a little longer, but still not very long.

[leftysixty]

I've got 18 mags for my CW40, and about 3,000 rds downrange.

I broke one follower, and I managed that with my mag loader

[muggsy]

Kahr is addressing the problem. They are replacing the broken followers and repairing the feed ramps that are out of spec. The problem is in determining when the problem started and how many guns need the fix. All new production should be good to go if Kahr is on top of the problem. No manufactures want to have products returned because of defects in materials or workmanship. Fixing gun for free eats into profits and that makes the stock holders very unhappy. The biggest problem is that most Americans expect out of the box perfection and instant gratification. Patience is a virtue and all good things come to those who wait.

[Tundra5.7]

Kahr is addressing the problem. They are replacing the broken followers and repairing the feed ramps that are out of spec. The problem is in determining when the problem started and how many guns need the fix. All new production should be good to go if Kahr is on top of the problem. No manufactures want to have products returned because of defects in materials or workmanship. Fixing gun for free eats into profits and that makes the stock holders very unhappy. The biggest problem is that most Americans expect out of the box perfection and instant gratification. Patience is a virtue and all good things come to those who wait.

Well, Kahr did address my follower/feed ramp issue and did so in a very timely manner. The CS I received was top notch and I'll give them credit for that. Obviously I do wish it worked perfectly out of the box but all is good now.

However, I have to ask what would be considered a "new production" Kahr pistol? Mine was from March of 2013 so it's not even a year old yet. Has Kahr changed something in their manufacturing process in that short period of time? I'm not being argumentative here just wondering out loud so to speak.

[MBSL500]

Kahr is addressing the problem. They are replacing the broken followers and repairing the feed ramps that are out of spec. The problem is in determining when the problem started and how many guns need the fix. All new production should be good to go if Kahr is on top of the problem. No manufactures want to have products returned because of defects in materials or workmanship. Fixing gun for free eats into profits and that makes the stock holders very unhappy. The biggest problem is that most Americans expect out of the box perfection and instant gratification. Patience is a virtue and all good things come to those who wait.

The problem is not being addressed.
I asked Ian; "if I were to buy a newly manufactured gun if I could be assured that I wouldn't have the follower issue" and was told "no".

Does this particular America expect perfection out of the box?
Absolutely not.
But I do expect that when I lay out my money for a new firearm, I will not need to polish the magazine feed lips, modify (file) the
follower, verify that the magazine spring isn't reversed, ground down and / or polish the feed ramp, or have to send it back to the
manufacturer to make it function correctly.

Nobody is expecting instant gratification, just a product that works as advertised...the first time.

This is a chronic issue with the gun.
And reading where someone has put 1 million rounds through theirs is no consolation to anyone who just had to put his new gun in the
mail to have Kahr make it "right".
To dismiss these known problems or suggest that anyone who expects a new product to work *the first" time* as "impatient", is not fair to the buyer.

Just my opinion as a CM9 owner folks.

[RRP]

My Kahr pistols work as they should. They have never given me a lick of trouble. So, I've not paid a lot of attention to exactly which model(s) is/are breaking magazine followers.

Is this problem confined to the CM9, or does it involve PM models and others?

[Tundra5.7]

The problem is not being addressed.
I asked Ian; "if I were to buy a newly manufactured gun if I could be assured that I wouldn't have the follower issue" and was told "no".

Does this particular America expect perfection out of the box?
Absolutely not.
But I do expect that when I lay out my money for a new firearm, I will not need to polish the magazine feed lips, modify (file) the
follower, verify that the magazine spring isn't reversed, ground down and / or polish the feed ramp, or have to send it back to the
manufacturer to make it function correctly.

Nobody is expecting instant gratification, just a product that works as advertised...the first time.

This is a chronic issue with the gun.
And reading where someone has put 1 million rounds through theirs is no consolation to anyone who just had to put his new gun in the
mail to have Kahr make it "right".
To dismiss these known problems or suggest that anyone who expects a new product to work "the first" time as impatient, is not fair to the buyer.

Just my opinion as a CM9 owner folks.

I suspect you are correct in stating this is a chronic issue with these pistols. IMO, the reason you don't hear or see more of this issue is because most don't shoot them enough to start experiencing issues in the first place.

Obviously this is not the case with members on this forum but for many it is. I know several guys who buy firearms simply because they find a good deal.

I also don't see anything wrong with expecting a new firearm to function properly. Would anyone not be upset if their new LED TV only illuminated in black and white?

[codegeek]

Re: For those that had followers break, how many rounds before they broke?

I suspect you are correct in stating this is a chronic issue with these pistols. IMO, the reason you don't hear or see more of this issue is because most don't shoot them enough to start experiencing issues in the first place.

Obviously this is not the case with members on this forum but for many it is. I know several guys who buy firearms simply because they find a good deal.

I also don't see anything wrong with expecting a new firearm to function properly. Would anyone not be upset if their new LED TV only illuminated in black and white?

Unless you have statistical evidence to support your claim of "chronic", I certainly wouldn't be making that statement, otherwise you come across as someone with an agenda like this MBLS5000 guy.

In any manufacturing process you are going to have issues. Unfortunately, Kahr is the only one that knows what the percentage is and what size the problem is. Their attitude indicates they are willing to deal with this as a post sale issue.

Fortunately, a lot of the people that have issues show up here where we are able to help them.

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