PM45 6-round magazine spring catatrosphic failure!

[wyntrout]

I sure wasn't expecting this as I emptied all my PM45 mags while getting ready to take it to the range. This magazine was a replacement given me by Kahr after my first PM45 was destroying all of the magazines... 08-16-2010. I got the pistol back with a new frame and all new mags, including the 6-rounder. It's been loaded with defense rounds and unused since around 09-23-2010 after getting the pistol and replacements back from Kahr. I tested them that day.

I'm sure that mag made it to the range a few times, but it was a shock that after pushing the top round out of the magazine, the rest didn't pop to the top. I suspected the spring was stuck, but it took awhile pushing from the bottom and the top get all of the rounds and magazine parts and spring bits out of the tube!

I was going to the range, but it's getting late and I wanted to post this. I had just gotten my P380 ready for the range and couldn't find but 7 mags... should have 10 or so. I still have to figure where those went, too.

I had planned to shoot the PM45 and the P380 since it has been a while!

The other mags seem okay, but will be watching for any other spring failures.

Pictures follow.

Wynn

[Bawanna]

Holy smokes. Broken in numerous places too, not just one spot.

Looks like some faulty spring wire there. Never seen the likes of that before.

[wyntrout]

I just counted 10 pieces... pretty brittle, I guess.

I fired off an email with the pictures to Kahr just for their info. I have spare springs, but not sure for the 6-rounder.

Stuff happens!

Wynn

[gb6491]

Wow, that's quite a failure.

[b4uqzme]

Follower looks OK though...

I've never left a mag loaded for four years...is that what I can expect to happen?

[BEARDOG]

Follower looks OK though...

I've never left a mag loaded for four years...is that what I can expect to happen?

No. I have never seen anything like that before.
I have left lots of different brand pistol mags loaded longer then that with no issues. Some of my AR mags had been loaded since the early 90's! I got all new no-tilt Magpul followers to upgrade them last year so I unloaded them to install and all the springs were fine.

[Bawanna]

I had two Colt 1911 mags loaded on Korean soil during the war. I shot them like 5 years ago and they shot perfectly. Old korean ammo, loaded all those years.

I no longer get too concerned about spring fatigue.

[BEARDOG]

I had two Colt 1911 mags loaded on Korean soil during the war. I shot them like 5 years ago and they shot perfectly. Old korean ammo, loaded all those years.

I no longer get too concerned about spring fatigue.

There you go, whats that like 50 yrs?... It is the cycling that wears out a spring. What Wynn shows is exactly what you said "faulty spring wire".

[wyntrout]

Follower looks OK though...

I've never left a mag loaded for four years...is that what I can expect to happen?

I have a bunch of 7-round extended grip mags and several 5-rounders that are okay. I haven't looked, yet, to see if I have a spare 6-round mag spring.

Most mags are fine.

Wynn

[yqtszhj]

I had two Colt 1911 mags loaded on Korean soil during the war. I shot them like 5 years ago and they shot perfectly. Old korean ammo, loaded all those years.

I no longer get too concerned about spring fatigue.

This is where you are supposed to say "see jocko, this is what you can do to a 1911/.45 that no one would ever think of doing with a 9mm."

[Bawanna]

Frankly I was shocked. The guy that gave me that Colt took it out of his duffle bag, told this story many times. He started to unload it and I asked him to just leave it as is. I thought that was good thinking on my part.
It was fully loaded but empty chamber. All I did was inspect the gun to make sure nothing was obviously broken or missing or anything that would blow up. No cleaning, a couple drops of oil on the rails as I recall and it ran like it was made yesterday.


I also got his M1 Carbine that was in the same duffle bag and had been since Korea as well. It's mint. Not a speck of rust or even wear. In the canvas type carry case they had. I think he was an officer of some sort. The 45 is well worn, character worn, not abused. The M1 looks like it never came out of the bag.

I've never shot it YET.

[wyntrout]

Update: I heard from Kahr about the magazine. They have offered to replace the mag if I send it in. A new spring would be better, so I just replaced the spring with an old 1911 magazine spring that seemed to fit with a little alteration for the coil at the top to fit the follower. It's just not worth the time and expense of sending the magazine back to Kahr.

I have lots of random springs from various 1911 makes and just grabbed something that fits. In this case a S&W 645 magazine spring from a mag with a broken tube. The 6-round mag is not something I carry... just for the range. I carry the 5-rounder in the pistol for CCW and carry a 7-round extended-grip mag as a reload.

Wynn

[RRP]

Wyntrout's experience should be a lesson to all of us. Guns are mechanical devices and they can (and will) fail. Thank goodness wyntrout discovered and fixed the problem before he needed the pistol to save his life.

We wouldn't go on a long trip without first checking tire pressure and oil level. We should perform the same due diligence if we're going to trust our lives to a pistol. Four years is way too long between test drives.

[CJB]

Col. don't be shocked.

The US ARMY Ordnance did a test, that was printed in The American Rifleman back in the early 60's (or maybe it was late 50's... don't crucify me!). They basically had 1911 magazines, that for some reason, were found to be charged with seven rounds of ammo, what that had been in storage since the first 1911 was still in warranty. Old stuff. WWI era.

They tested the ammo, and the magazines and found zero defects in either - which is not surprising. For the old clorate primed 45 ammo, the saving grace was the bitumen seal on the bullet, and the lacquer seal on the primer. For the magazines - it has been established that compression within the designed range of the spring does not kill the spring, or alter it significantly. Repeated flexing will weakin the spring to a great degree. This is why locking back the slide on a new pistol is more or less useless, and so is hand racking. And why charged magazines - with decent quality springs - wont be greatly effected.

So, the question remains, did Wyn load and unload that magazine a few gazillion times in his sleep?

[Bawanna]

I'm convinced in my head that it was just spring material gone very bad from the get go.

Too brittle or something. Even if loaded a gazillion times it would just be weak and girly man, still shouldn't break like that.

Faulty material.