PM45 6-round magazine spring catatrosphic failure!

[b4uqzme]

I'm convinced in my head that it was just spring material gone very bad from the get go.

Too brittle or something. Even if loaded a gazillion times it would just be weak and girly man, still shouldn't break like that.

Faulty material.

That's what killed my comedy career........faulty material.

[TheLastDaze]

this was probably HT the same time the problem strikers were.....

that's a bummer for sure.....

[Bawanna]

That's what killed my comedy career........faulty material.

Oh man, you too huh? Dang near pandemic.

[wyntrout]

UPDATE:

The 6-round failed at home before the range trip. At the range a 5-round PM45 mag failed... shattered spring like the 6-rounder. I also had a few malfunctions with one or two of the 7-round extended-grip mags... failure to feed and the slide not locking back on empty magazine.

I cleaned the pistols... PM45 and G21 SF that night... pretty quick for me... and found more problems with the PM45 mags as I tried to set some up for home defense. The other 5-round mag had a broken spring, too, and I decided to look at all of the magazines and took them apart. I also used my wooden mag depressor to test the springs before disassembly to see if any would fail. At the range, after the 5-round mag failed, I loaded all of the remaining mags at least once more to test them and then put about 5 magazinefulls through the remaining 5-rounder.

I'll post some pictures of this, but I noticed that the 7-round mags all had wimpy springs that were pretty weak and didn't seem correct. I had a spare each for the 5 and 7-round mags, so I counted the coils. The new 7-round spring had 18 coils and the new 5-round one 14. ALL of the 6 7-round mags and the 5-rounders had 14-coil springs! I couldn't tell what the 6-rounder had because it broke into 10 pieces... shattered.

I must have spent 20 minutes and lots of cussing trying to get that 18-coil spring into a 7-round magazine! That's the hardest thing I ever had to do with a Kahr! And yes, I DID try to use a straight pick to hold most of the coils in place, but that didn't work as the remaining coils couldn't be depressed enough with the pin in place. Anyhow, I finally got the danged thing together and loaded it with 7 rounds to see what that will do as it takes a set. I put the 14-coil one into the 5-rounder and loaded it, too.

I know that my wife was glad when I finally stopped screaming and cursing! Oh... and a little oil on the springs really help!

All of those magazines were replacements from Kahr back in January 2013... 7 when I had problems with splitting magazines and two more shortly thereafter that I had bought at Ivanhoe, so all 9 mags were from the same period. I don't know why, but it seems that someone used the wrong springs... easier to load?? And, maybe the temperature got too high during tempering of the wire so it was brittle.

I sent another email to Kahr about those findings and asked for replacement springs for all of the mags.

Man! The saga continues with my PM4544N (New 03/05/10) "Boomer", A.K.A. "Franken-Boomer"**Only original part may be slide lock after 5 trips back to the factory!

Wynn

[Harrylee]

Sounds like a bad run that no one caught except for you good luck with Kahr at least you didn't find this out when you really needed the gun!!!!

[CJB]

Wyn, may I politely inquire about your magazine cleaning?

Reason I'm asking - and I can't tell from images online - is I'm wondering if you've put the springs in the mags totally clean and dry, or if they had an oily film.

For this to happen on more than one magazine is almost unheard of, especially on magazines with springs of different production runs - such as you experienced. I do know that pains are taken in manufacturing of wire formed springs, to not nick or damage the wire as it will be a place the spring eventually breaks, with higher strength springs being more prone than mild ones. Same as when you forma leaf spring for a gun, the spring must be polished before heat treatment or you'll just end up breaking the spring, same goes for reforming one later on. You alter the spring - even if no heat was used or created in its alteration - you gotta polish it smooth again or it will snap easy.

So... the question is.... could some sort of surface rust have caused those two springs to be prone to breakage?

This is a most curious situation!

[wyntrout]

I think they were badly tempered, the way they shattered... the 6-rounder into 10 pieces and the the 5-rounders into 6 and 4 pieces.

My standard preparation of new magazines is to thoroughly clean the tube of the grease gunk they have when new... forcing paper towels through the tube with a flat wooden slanted on one end piece of wood that I formed for that purpose. I then put Tetra oil on my fingers and rub it all over the spring/coils so that there's a light coat of oil. I also make sure that the follower falls freely from the base to the top when the mag is inverted and the follower is is released.

I don't regularly take the mags apart for cleaning since I don't really overuse them. I generally have 10 or more mags per pistol and load all of them for the range. The .45 ones I kept loaded for home defense... the extra ones in a dry, low humidity condition(<40%) tool chest of drawers that I use for my pistols.

I think that Kahr had a bad batch of mag springs from overheating during the tempering process. I'm no metallurgist by any means, but I've never seen springs do this kind of disintegration without a lot rust being involved.

Wynn

[CJB]

I'd let Kahr have. That aint right

[wyntrout]

I hope that they will send me replacements for all of the magazines. I can't see sending them all of my mags. I still have two of 4 6-round P45 mags that I bought from someone here. I wound up selling a few at the gun shows and two of those left. I haven't dug them out of the gun show bins to check their springs... number of coils, etc.

It was another big surprise that ALL of my six 7-round extended-grip mags had the 14-coil 5-round mag springs in them... totally inadequate for reliable slide lock back and feeding. The correct ones have 18 coils and are a b!tch to get assembled!

I was just going to use some 1911 officer spare mag springs for a few, but went ahead and used the spare springs I had more for sale at the gun shows. But after finding the same springs in both the 7 and 5-rounders, I used the spares and got 4 mags back into service.

Wynn

[wyntrout]

I did load the 4 magazines with my defense rounds and test cycled them rapidly through the pistol... no problems. I WAS kind of worried about the 7-round mags' springs being too strong as they were so difficult to install!

Wynn

[wyntrout]

Update. I sent an email on Friday and hadn't heard back, so I sent another today and got the same canned "send them in and we'll replace them", so I called and talked to Matt at Customer Service and he's going to send me replacement springs, saving us both a bunch of money. Their sending me 9 springs will be a lot cheaper than 9 mags! And, more importantly, faster for me!

Wynn

[muggsy]

I think they were badly tempered, the way they shattered... the 6-rounder into 10 pieces and the the 5-rounders into 6 and 4 pieces.

My standard preparation of new magazines is to thoroughly clean the tube of the grease gunk they have when new... forcing paper towels through the tube with a flat wooden slanted on one end piece of wood that I formed for that purpose. I then put Tetra oil on my fingers and rub it all over the spring/coils so that there's a light coat of oil. I also make sure that the follower falls freely from the base to the top when the mag is inverted and the follower is is released.

I don't regularly take the mags apart for cleaning since I don't really overuse them. I generally have 10 or more mags per pistol and load all of them for the range. The .45 ones I kept loaded for home defense... the extra ones in a dry, low humidity condition(<40%) tool chest of drawers that I use for my pistols.

I think that Kahr had a bad batch of mag springs from overheating during the tempering process. I'm no metallurgist by any means, but I've never seen springs do this kind of disintegration without a lot rust being involved.

I've been known to have a bad temper and I've never shattered. I've come apart at the seams a few times, but never shattered.

Wynn

I've been known to have a bad temper and I've never shattered. I've come apart at the seams a few times, but never shattered.

[wyntrout]

Well, my springs came in today... Veterans' Day... and required an adult signature. I signed for them anyhow.

There were 3 14-coil springs for the 525 and 625 mags and 6 18-coil ones for the 7-rounders... what fun those were!

I got all four remaining 7-rounders done in less time than it took to do one of the other two last week... still cussing and making my wife very uncomfortable... sitting at the dining table.

I deburred the followers with 320-grit sandpaper and lightly lubed the springs... which really helps on installation... NOT! But it wasn't too bad... the lubing. I used Tetra Oil and a Q-tip for getting the insides of the coils lightly covered before using my fingers to add a bit to the outsides.

I did resort to using my straight pick to hold the springs in place after the first one.

All of my PM45 mags are back in service! Yay, Kahr Customer Service!

Wynn

[smokersteve]

That many springs breaking is crazy. I've never seen one break let alone that many.
Why are you having such a hard time putting the springs in? The springs on my cw380 and cm9 are easy to put in. Is it because it's .45 acp?

[wyntrout]

I can put those in with my eyes closed. The brand new springs for the 7-round .45's are 18-coils long and over twice the length of the magazine tube. The ones for the longer 9mm and .40 are similar, but not quite as strong and "wiggly". I have the P380, PM9, P9, P40 and the PM45. I have the largest Kahr mags for all of those and carry them as spares.

As I said... I routinely take new mags apart and degrease the tubes, deburr the parts as needed, and lightly oil the springs before reassembling them. The springs in assembled mags have take a little set and aren't as hard to install as a new uncompressed and un-set spring, especially the LONGER ones. The springs are designed and made longer so that when they are compressed and used, they take a set shorter length, but perform as designed.

Only three shattered. The 7-round mags all had the wrong springs... 14-coil ones used in the 5 and 6-round mags. The 14-round ones had taken a set and were too short and weak to work reliably in place of the correct 18-coil ones.

Wynn