PM9 vs. PF9 (Kel-Tec)

[kahrseye]

To say these two weapons are "not in the same ballpark" in "any category" is a flat out moronic statement. These two guns are extremely similiar in every category. To say otherwise is laughable. You can have a personal bias for one or the other but get real about your assessment. These are two highly popular guns for many of the same reasons. Let me help you with your analogy, how about a honda civic and a ford focus? Apples to apples. And I love kahrs by the way.

They aren't in the same ballpark. I've owned 2 KT's and I can tell you the fit, finish, and overall quality is not anywhere close to a Kahr. I think the design of the Kahr is also superior. The trigger alone is worth the price of a Kahr. Much smoother and consistent. You want to compare them? Sure they're both guns, both 9mm, and both go bang. End of comparison. Now, if you want a cheap...inexpensive gun...buy the KT. If you want a piece of quality and you'll pay for it....buy the Kahr. Never could shoot the KT's worth a damn.

[copterdrvr]

Hey "Mud", I'll be interested to hear what you have to say as I too have both pistols and I HAVE shot them together.

Definitely most noticable is the difference between the two pistols with regard to perceived or "felt" recoil.

I know the PM9 weighs two ounces more than the P9F but I find the difference in recoil to be significant. I'm sure I've never shot even a box of 115 grn bullets in the Keltec as my hand has had enough at about half that. I let a friend of mine shoot my Keltec and after two shots he handed it back to me and said "that's enough"! The first time I took out the PM9 I fired 200 rounds and I quit because I ran out of bullets!

I'll be interested to hear your opinion on the recoil issue.

[n8tureboy]

They aren't in the same ballpark.

Well I guess this is a useless thread then. Don't know why the OP is wasting his time on 2 guns that are sooooooooooo different. When did Kahrtalk turn into Glocktalk??? To each his own but I love both guns. I doubt if I ever have to shoot a bad guy with it he'll be saying, "damn the finish on that gun isn't near as nice as the Kahr he could have shot me with". I have the sudden urge to go shoot the KT and try to prove to myself what a piece of crap it is.

[DKD]

This will be my last post on this thread short of someone throwing down on me...
We all here are in good company and should all be of good cheer and toward that end if I had been a bit harsh in my crticism, I will apologize, for that was not my intent.

Anyway, with that being said, just a parting shot....the previous posts to the best of my recollection are in line as the original post was stated as "PM9 vs PF9" or wasn't it? If this is in fact true than all the posts are relavent to the topic of discussion and don't need their own thread.
Now I feel alot better...ya'll have a great day.

[n8tureboy]

This will be my last post on this thread short of someone throwing down on me...
We all here are in good company and should all be of good cheer and toward that end if I had been a bit harsh in my crticism, I will apologize, for that was not my intent.

Anyway, with that being said, just a parting shot....the previous posts to the best of my recollection are in line as the original post was stated as "PM9 vs PF9" or wasn't it? If this is in fact true than all the posts are relavent to the topic of discussion and don't need their own thread.
Now I feel alot better...ya'll have a great day.

I apologize also if I offended anyone by anything I said. DKD and anyone else in this group I say THANK YOU for your service. I don't think that gets said enough now days. Later

[deadhead1971]

This has been fun to watch with detached amusement. I have not fired a kel-tec so I can't comment. I do like that the kel-tec has some rails for lasers & lights.

[Bawanna]

MUD,
I think that your original intent for this thread was perfectly stated.
I for one am interested in your findings. If I am correct WE are still living in a FREE country.
Don't let all this squabbling & bickering upset you. I enjoy reading un-biased comparisons of different firearms. I think they can be VERY helpful to potential buyers.

THIS IS THE EXACT KIND OF THING THIS FORUM SHOULD ENCOURAGE !!! IN MY OPINION.

SO................YOU GO BOY !

Exactomundo! Cept I aint' gonna risk an a$$ whoopin and call ya boy!

[Dietrich]

I love all guns as long as they perform as they are supposed to when they are needed to.I have a Rossi .357 snubnose that I got at a gun show for $275.00.It works flawlessly and is my constant companion in my pickup.The cost of a firearm doesn`t mean much if it won`t fire.I feel the same way about women.If they don`t function as needed,time to trade them in.[if Zena or mx5fan are lurking,that ought to get `em stirred up.]

[n8tureboy]

Well, your Rossi .357 snubbie is crap compared to my S&W .357 snubbie! Not even in the same ballpark! Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Later

[jreXD9]

I had a PF9. Won't have another. I have a PM9. I like it so much that I knew I wouldn't be carrying my XD9sc anymore, so I sold the XD9sc and got another Kahr, this time the CW45. The wife has a CW9. I'm guess I'm sold on Kahr handguns. IMO, there is no real comparison between the PF and the PM. The PM is easy to shoot and accurate. The PF is nasty and I wasn't accurate with it. The PF rattles when you shake it it. The PM9 is TIGHT. The PM is easy to break down and clean. The PF was a pain. Yes, the PF is inexpensive and the PM is not. Is the dependability of my PM worth $200 more than the troublesome PF? IMO, yessirree, worth every extra penny, especially if I ever need to confidently pull it out for defense.

[Mudinyeri]

Conditions

Temp: 90 F
Humidity: Soupy
Wind: Still

I took both guns out to the range this afternoon. Upon arrival, I ran a couple magazines through the PM9 just to get a feel for the trigger. That way, it was as least close to a fair comparison.

As we all suspected, the Kahr feels like a much higher quality gun. There is definitely less felt recoil. The trigger is much smoother. Both guns shot flawlessly. The PM9 is a fantastic gun and I would highly recommend it. I like it even better than my CW40. The Kel-Tec is an inexpensive and reliable gun. It is not buttery smooth like the Kahr but it performs without complaint and would make a good budget carry gun.

Here are the results of the 15 round aimed fire tests:

Kel-Tec: 14 of 15 rounds on the target, 4 in the black



Kahr: 14 of 15 rounds on the target, 3 in the Bull's Eye, 3 off the black



Here are the results of the six-round rapid fire test:

Kel-Tec: 5 of 6 rounds on target



Kahr: 6 of 6 rounds on target

[Bawanna]

Are you right or left handed? You seem to be pulling to the left with both guns although a bit more with the Kel Tec. Even in rapid fire your pulling left.
Good report. Shoot a couple hundred more thru the Kahr, then do the same test again. See if those groups don't tighten up some with some trigger time.
Appreciate your efforts and letting us all know how it went.

[Mudinyeri]

Are you right or left handed? You seem to be pulling to the left with both guns although a bit more with the Kel Tec. Even in rapid fire your pulling left.
Good report. Shoot a couple hundred more thru the Kahr, then do the same test again. See if those groups don't tighten up some with some trigger time.
Appreciate your efforts and letting us all know how it went.

Yes, I consistently pull to the left when shooting two-handed ever since I severely broke my right ring finger (I'm right handed). I probably should have mentioned that up front. It's funny, I shoot better with either hand solo than I do two-handed. If anyone reads this and figures out how to help me fix that it will make my day! I'm not milking. I've tried my trigger finger in virtually ever position imaginable. It seems as soon as my left hand clamps down over my deformed right ring finger everything pulls left. I can put together tight shot groups but they're always left. I'm not embarrassed by the shot groups with these two pistols at seven yards. They could have been a bit tighter, sure, but they're pretty consistent.

On a related note, I put another 100 rounds through the Kahr after the tests and things are getting better.

[kahrdriver]

To say these two weapons are "not in the same ballpark" in "any category" is a flat out moronic statement. These two guns are extremely similiar in every category. To say otherwise is laughable. You can have a personal bias for one or the other but get real about your assessment. These are two highly popular guns for many of the same reasons. Let me help you with your analogy, how about a honda civic and a ford focus? Apples to apples. And I love kahrs by the way.

I understand what DKD is saying. I don't think he was criticizing the Kel-Tec......just stating that it is a cheaper gun. Taurus makes 1911's....but they are not a Colt. That doesn't mean they are bad, just cheaper. I do believe the Kahr is higher quality than the Kel-Tec. That is common sense. Again, the Kel Tec is still a good, functional weapon and a great bargain. A close friend has one of Kel Tecs 32's. It is quite reliable but only so-so in accuracy. He had one of their .40 cals. and the same holds true, albeit the accuracy was not good enough for him to keep it. To me, this is acceptable performance for a bargain priced gun. I do expect more....and get more from my Kahr. I suspect most Kahrs will outshoot Kel-Tecs BUT....as long as they are both reliable, they both represent value.

[Bawanna]

Yes, I consistently pull to the left when shooting two-handed ever since I severely broke my right ring finger (I'm right handed). I probably should have mentioned that up front. It's funny, I shoot better with either hand solo than I do two-handed. If anyone reads this and figures out how to help me fix that it will make my day! I'm not milking. I've tried my trigger finger in virtually ever position imaginable. It seems as soon as my left hand clamps down over my deformed right ring finger everything pulls left. I can put together tight shot groups but they're always left. I'm not embarrassed by the shot groups with these two pistols at seven yards. They could have been a bit tighter, sure, but they're pretty consistent.

On a related note, I put another 100 rounds through the Kahr after the tests and things are getting better.

I meant no criticism of your shot groups, mostly wondering about the consistent left hits. I think the groups will get tighter too with more trigger time.
Does the ring finger hurt in a shooting position? If memory serves milking would push you right if your right handed. Both guns shot left consistently, mostly why I wondered.
Perhaps experiment with different positions on the weak hand, either more wrap around or maybe less. I'd like to see a picture of your hands in a shooting position. I don't claim to be no crack shot expert but like to figure stuff like this out.
I'm glad things are getting better.