PM9 vs. PF9 (Kel-Tec)

[Popeye]

Very well put Surv. and I understand the ammo frustrations of owning a .380. Like you said though the P3at definately has a place in this world when you want to carry deep concealed. It is by far the best choice for me when ride the M/C. It fits into a vest pocket way better than my PM9.
The P3at I have isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I'm not sure I'd ever buy another .380 though of any brand. I hope people do not think I was bashing KT or the pistols but I just do not think the comparison is a fair comparison in anyway shape or form. I think the CW9 would be a closer comparison but even that's a bit of a streatch.
Being and owner of both brands,I'll say this. Both have been 100% reliable for me, and that's important being there both SD pistols.

[copterdrvr]

I agree with Popeye as I own a Keltec P11, P9F, P3AT and a Kahr CW9 as well as a PM9. None of these pistols have EVER failed in any way, shape or form.

The difference between the two manufacturers is that I didn't shoot any of the Keltecs until I had spent a fair amount of time polishing the feedramps and chambers as I found them to be very rough. Both of my Kahrs were initially shot without polishing the ramps. Because I'm kinda paranoid, I've polished the Kahrs to a mirror finish like my Keltecs. The difference was that the Kahrs polished up WAAAAAY faster than the Keltecs.

Doesn't really matter though as all of the pistols now have feed ramps that are polished to a mirror shine and they all are 100% reliable. I'd MUUUUCH rather shoot the Kahrs though-they are way more enjoyable to run some magazines through!!!

[Popeye]

Copterdrvr
I did shoot my Parkerized P3at before I did the Fluff and Buff and had a few problems with FTE. After I did the feed ramp and the slide rails with 2500 grit emory paper and 200 rounds the thing has been flawless. Some people might think doing a F&B might be a PITA, but I found it to be, Me just getting to know my pistol better. I was so happy with the way it turned out, that at a later time decided to polish the entire barrel. I liked that so much that I did the barrel of my XD9 sc and the PM9 the same way. They also are the all black finish except for the barrels. Imo polishing the barrels makes a nice difference on how the pistols cycle especially on the P3at.
That little p3at I swear gets better with age. I have somewhere around 500 rounds through it, I guess? To be honest I never counted after the first 200 and like I mentioned earler it's not going anywhere. It's not like I spent allot of money on it to feel like I need to carry it allot to justify my purchase of it. It has it's place, and when I feel I need to go deep Concealed it does it's job. For me it's not a range toy, and never was intended to be one. It's a tool, nothing more.
Kel Tec are IMO a nice pistol for the money and fill a need for allot of people very well. From what I hear there costomer service is excellent. Fortunately I never had to fine that out first hand.

[texjames]

I have tried a number of Kahrs over the years.....everyone had failure to feed when changing mags. I tried polishing the feedramps etc. and so forth. I no longer own a Kahr due to lack of confidence :40: or perhaps fear of not having it work when needed most.
I think the Kahr [Cadillac] is way pricey for the quality. I prefer carring my Para Ordnances. However I recently aquired a Kel Tec P11 [Chevy] and have had absolutly no problems with it for about a third the price and it is fast becoming my daily carry piece. Several of my local dealers have said they have seen the same issues and get a fair number of Kahrs traded in for other makes. Bring on the bashing......sometimes price is not the only factor to look at. The Kel Tec trigger sucks compared to the Kahr but I can live with that.:33:

I am wondering if Kahr made some mods to the current available PM9's.
I had heard about the needed 200 round break in.I was wanting one before i bought mine.So i just wrote a letter to Kahr Customer Service
and asked them about the problems during break in.Why a expensive gun
would fail until so many rounds had to go through it.The letter was answered after a couple days by a Gun Tech.He said yes you can expect a few failures, FTE etc during the first 200 rounds break in.He suggested
USA brass cased ammo, white box Winchester would be ok, but put 50 of what i will carry as defense ammo through it before putting it in to service. So i have shot 220 rounds through my PM9 with zero failures except one i caused trying to sling shot chamber a round, my trigger finger was pushing on the end of the slide release/take down and i managed to push it into the kidney hole some how.Other then that its been flawless.
I am going to the range today and put another 50 white box though it and then 50 Remington Golden Saber 124 gr JHP's though it too.
I would not call it a cadilac.I got mine from Buds for $606 and a
Glock G26 is about $530...the slimmer PM9 gives me something along those lines but slimmer.A lot of new owners are reporting zero failures these days .

[O'Dell]

I have tried a number of Kahrs over the years.....everyone had failure to feed when changing mags. I tried polishing the feedramps etc. and so forth. I no longer own a Kahr due to lack of confidence :40: or perhaps fear of not having it work when needed most.
I think the Kahr [Cadillac] is way pricey for the quality. I prefer carring my Para Ordnances. However I recently aquired a Kel Tec P11 [Chevy] and have had absolutly no problems with it for about a third the price and it is fast becoming my daily carry piece. Several of my local dealers have said they have seen the same issues and get a fair number of Kahrs traded in for other makes. Bring on the bashing......sometimes price is not the only factor to look at. The Kel Tec trigger sucks compared to the Kahr but I can live with that.:33:

As mentioned earlier I had a PF9. It was OK but choked on every other round of WWB. This is fairly common according to posters on the KT forum. Not a big problem - I just shot up the rest of it in my CW9 and P225, which had no issues with it. I also had a P11. It was more problematic, and was never 100%. Plus, I couldn't stand the trigger. So ended my experiment with KT when I sold both.

As far a my Kahr's reliability, I have had three with a combined total of over 1700 rounds w/o one failure of any kind, not one. Your experience is a bit hard to understand. Over the last 40+ years I have owned Brownings, Colts, S&W's, a Kimber, a Para, SIG's, Tauruses, a Springfield, Rugers, KT's, and Kahr's. The only brands in which I have never had a failure are S&W, SIG, and Kahr. Guess what brands of handgun I carry one of which every day.

[Bawanna]

Kel Tec? :84:

[copterdrvr]

have to admit that the P3AT is one of my favorite carry guns as it's soooooo tiny!!! As I've said earlier, I've almost jumped in the pool with my 380 in my pocket because I forgot it was there!!!!!

[jocko]

ur lucky

have to admit that the P3AT is one of my favorite carry guns as it's soooooo tiny!!! As I've said earlier, I've almost jumped in the pool with my 380 in my pocket because I forgot it was there!!!!!

I owned 3 of them back about 4 years ago and had to send all 3 back a total of 17 times. still have the service paperwork around here somewhere. I just had every imiagiable issue witht hem that one could even dream of. I am told they hav eworked alot of that out of them today. I have an lcp that has never given one issues and it is a copy of the kt, only IMO jsut alittle better made,but as any Ruger lcp owner knows they had to recall all 50,000 of them to ,,, to make they right and indeed Ruger stepped up to the plate and I just don't know of any unhappty campers who own the Ruger lcp. Kt stand sbehind their guns, that is for sure but for me they just never could fix any thing right. It and the lcp just dissapear in ur pocket though, but so does my P380 also...

I just find myself always grabbing my PM9 for pocket carry, so my two 380's just sit..

[copterdrvr]

Well, I love my PM9 but my P3AT is still the smallest pistol I own that I'm comfortable carrying. I have a CT laser installed on the Keltec and it's a perfect fit in my cargo pockets. I'm awaiting the arrival of my CT laser for my PM9 and then I'll have to re-assess my carry options.

[O'Dell]

Kel Tec? :84:

Funny! I guess that's what I get for not telling you that there was going to be a pop quiz.

[Bawanna]

Funny! I guess that's what I get for not telling you that there was going to be a pop quiz.

You just can't leave a pot hole full of water in front of Bawanna and not expect him to jump in it or perhaps roll thru it very very fast. Yo deserve better than that for sure.
Never done good on them Pop Quiz's.

[joje]

chalk me up as another happy p3at owner. got to have near a 1000 rounds through it now and so far its been equally reliable as my (newer) pm9: 0% failure rate using within-spec ammo. the poor sights and long trigger make it difficult to shoot, but it does launch the bullets exactly where you point it when the trigger breaks, meaning with good hands and eyes it is WAY more accurate than people give it credits for.

i was going to buy a pf9 since i consider keltec products unrivaled cost-benefit wise in the pocket pistol market, but then i got my hands on a kahr and after that i couldnt get myself to buy another "happy meal finish" gun, regardless of price and reliability.

also agree that george kellgren has a lot of thinking-outside-the-box in his minimalist designs. perhaps more than justin moon and definitely more than the average big dog.

[frank_drebin]

Great pics. Thanks for sharing. I will be getting a PM9 Black Rose for my wife when I can find one.

[tomwalshco]

Had both, PM9 & PF9. KT was a bit finicky about ammo, especially WWB. Like Kahr triggers better. Sold it to fund a P380. Also have a KT P3AT. It's always been flawless. You can slip into a limp-wrist habit (which KTs are susceptible to) if you shoot big heavy guns, too.

I like Kel-Tecs. I'd feel much more comfortable carrying a KT than a Kimber or a Para.... kinda like I'd rather drive a Toyota to Florida than a Lotus.

[Rio Lobo]

I
Kahr's are meant to last a lifetime and are built accordingly. KT's are not, it's as simple as that.

Popeye,

I'm curious. If what you're saying is true, why then does KAHR only back their high quality, more expensive product with a limited 5-year warranty; yet Kel-Tec backs their product with a "Lifetime Warranty"?

Simple as that? Seems more like an anomaly.

Please explain your comments in that context.