New PM9 broke after 25 rounds--update--CS A+ on fix

[Atilla]

Well this thread got silly real quick.

I got a RA from Kahr today and sent it back to them. I had to pay the shipping, which Kahr mandates next day air. $48.05 later, I am wondering what kind of business they are running. They also say they have a $40 surcharge for anyone NOT using next day air. My Lenovo laptop and Ruger (LCP) both covered shipping on warranty work. Hopefully they fix it right the first time, they sure didn't build it right the first time. Some extras or deep discounts to cover the loss I am taking on the moronic shipping charges I am forced to accept (standard ground was about $8, so with Kahr's $40 surcharge a wash on the overnight charge--but at this point I'd much rather give the money to UPS) would be nice.

So like I mentioned in my OP, my Sig has well over 10k rounds through it, and I know many who are pushing 40k---how many Kahrs out there have high round counts (with very very high reliability)? I really like the size of the MK/PM platform, and my MK9 has been reliable and accurate so far. Hopefully in 3 years after 5k flawless rounds I will be a Kahr disciple.

[Bawanna]

I don't think it is a Kahr mandate on the overnight shipping. That is a UPS, Mail or Fed Ex mandate. I'm not sure where they get off charging a surcharge for those who sneak one in under the radar. Perhaps they are at risk for not following shipping rules?
Jocko's PM 9 has nearly 40, 000 rounds, I've once again forgotten but its an insane amount of rounds with zero problems.

[wyntrout]

You guys are bad. Do you remember the big fat prisoner being checked into jail/prison a few years ago? He had already been frisked and processed into whatever confinement he was getting. He decided after thinking about it a bit, to tell the guards/cops or whatever that he had a 9mm pistol under a roll of fat... unloaded but a pistol. He wound up getting more charges and additional time for sneaking a gun in or whatever, so that's possible.
A search gave a lot of hits on this:
http://www.google.com/search?q=fat+p...ient=firefox-a

I just can't believe that people are having to pay for retuning their pistols for warranty work! It cost Kahr about $26 to have my gun picked up and shipped to them. It would have cost me over $60... FedEx Overnight.

Wynn

[Hank Hill]

This is an abberation which I don't understand. Kahr is most definately a quality gun maker that is reliable.

Sorry, no. I just dumped my new PM9 for a G26 due to serious FTF issues and the fact that after 3 weeks I got tired of my gun being in "que" at Kahr for repairs.

Alas the Kahr faithful will dismiss you as incompetent rather than admit this gun has problems.

Whew! I'm glad to be rid of mine!

[Hank Hill]

I think the forum moderator needs to make a section just for problems or complaints about the pm9 or other kahr guns....because most of what you hear is negative and almost pulled me away from buying one....but i love mine and im glad i did.

I disagree. Legitimate and verifiable complaints should not be corralled into an area for the comfort of Kahr. Had I read all the complaints about the PM9 before I bought mine 3 weeks ago, I'd have never bought it and had to sell it.

Sunshine is a great disinfectant.

[tyrobins]

I've bought both a PM9 and a Sig p226 in the past 3 months.

The PM9 is at 1500 rnds. It had 2 malfunctions within the 200 rnd break in period, and a flawless 1300 after that.

The Sig has been sent back to Sig because the trigger bar was falling into the mag well when a round in battery was fired with the magazine removed (this jammed the trigger and slide fully to the rear). A very bad malfunction.

I trust that Sig will make it right for me because of their CS reputation. I post this just to say that even Sig is capable of shipping out a "lemon". I'll be patient and give them a chance to make it right (although admittedly one chance, if it still gives problems after it comes back I'm going to throw a hissy). I'd encourage you to give Kahr the same oppurtunity. I love my PM9, and once yours comes back you probably will love yours, too.

[tyrobins]

Atilla, I just read your post about paying for shipping. If I were you I'd raise some hell to get them to pay for that. They sent out a bad gun. They should pay for everything. End of story.

[RogerP9fan]

Just to set the record straight with a disappointing update since my last posting. I've had 6 malfunctions in which the trigger failed to reset while firing (no, I don't hold the trigger all the way back after firing and I'm not a limpwrister)
A dead trigger with no tension at all with a live round sitting in the chamber.
I eject the live round and fire the remaining rounds. Next magazine, the same failure occurs.
I've only fired 100 rounds previous to this. The gun is brand new.
It's going back to Kahr and I'd love for them to tell me shipping charges are my responsibility.

[Hank Hill]

I've bought both a PM9 and a Sig p226 in the past 3 months.

The PM9 is at 1500 rnds. It had 2 malfunctions within the 200 rnd break in period, and a flawless 1300 after that.

The Sig has been sent back to Sig because the trigger bar was falling into the mag well when a round in battery was fired with the magazine removed (this jammed the trigger and slide fully to the rear). A very bad malfunction.

I trust that Sig will make it right for me because of their CS reputation. I post this just to say that even Sig is capable of shipping out a "lemon". I'll be patient and give them a chance to make it right (although admittedly one chance, if it still gives problems after it comes back I'm going to throw a hissy). I'd encourage you to give Kahr the same oppurtunity. I love my PM9, and once yours comes back you probably will love yours, too.

My Sig P239 has been flawless since new. But I think the difference between your example and mine is that this forum and other gun forums are rife with reports of issues with the PM9, whereas Sigs, not so much. Granted, the P238s have had some growing pains but they seem to pale in comparison to the PM9 issues. That in addition to the fact that I've heard very few complaints about how Sig has dealt with their issues.

Just one man's opinion, anecdotal at best.

[RogerP9fan]

This has been a hard and embarrasing lesson for me especially if you read my comments in reply box #4.

The lesson is: Don't comment on things unless you have absolute real world experience on the subject at hand.
Don't comment based on pure hopes and expectation.

[RogerP9fan]

I think the forum moderator needs to make a section just for problems or complaints about the pm9 or other kahr guns....because most of what you hear is negative and almost pulled me away from buying one....but i love mine and im glad i did.

This sounds dangerously close to being CENSORSHIP. Actually, no, that is CENSORSHIP. Fidel Castro would be proud.

[Bawanna]

This is becoming a very depressing and boring thread. I suggest we all have a group hug, (the gun of your choice), sing kumbya a few times and move onto something perhaps more positive and entertaining.
Least wise that's where I'm going, who's with me?

[Hank Hill]

This has been a hard and embarrasing lesson for me especially if you read my comments in reply box #4.

The lesson is: Don't comment on things unless you have absolute real world experience on the subject at hand.
Don't comment based on pure hopes and expectation.

I tend to take with a grain of salt the comments like "I've ran 4 trillion rounds through mine and never had a single FTF." People defend their buying decisions, that's just human nature.

My decision to sell my nearly-new PM9 goes deeper than that - it goes to my fear that Kahr's refusal to admit they have issue with their PM9 does not bode well for their future success.

Toyota recently learned that lesson when they attempted to ignore the sudden acceleration issues they had. They waited too long and before you know if the problem snowballed to the point that it became much bigger than it actually was, with customers likely blaming them for what was really driver error. Toyota eventually recognized this and changed their tune to say: "We're sorry we let our customers down and we're working night and day to re-earn your trust."

I have tried hard not to seek revenge here for the problems I had with my $835 Kahr PM9/CT. This especially given that their very honorable dealer made me whole. But my conscience won't allow me to not talk about what I know.

[Atilla]

I tend to take with a grain of salt the comments like "I've ran 4 trillion rounds through mine and never had a single FTF." People defend their buying decisions, that's just human nature.

My decision to sell my nearly-new PM9 goes deeper than that - it goes to my fear that Kahr's refusal to admit they have issue with their PM9 does not bode well for their future success.

Toyota recently learned that lesson when they attempted to ignore the sudden acceleration issues they had. They waited too long and before you know if the problem snowballed to the point that it became much bigger than it actually was, with customers likely blaming them for what was really driver error. Toyota eventually recognized this and changed their tune to say: "We're sorry we let our customers down and we're working night and day to re-earn your trust."

I have tried hard not to seek revenge here for the problems I had with my $835 Kahr PM9/CT. This especially given that their very honorable dealer made me whole. But my conscience won't allow me to not talk about what I know.

Please feel free to unburden your soul of any resentment you are holding in. It's toxic. The jury is still out with my case of the PM9 that died after 25 rounds. If they take care of me, and it really lasts for thousands of rounds, I'll be a convert. I doubt I'll even consider EDC until I have 500 rounds flawless through it. I shoot a lot, train a lot, and understand guns are mechanical devices. Springs and few other parts are expected to be replaced and moving parts need cleaning and lubrication. It's good your dealer took the hit and made you whole. But I really appreciate a good gun dealer and hate to see them pay for a manufacturer's bad product. I can see Kahr having serious PR problems. Just one or 2 bad CS experiences can affect a whole community of potential customers. When Ruger recalled the LCP, they sent me a prepaid label for shipping, with an apology.....did the work and in 2 weeks I had the gun back, plus a zippered case and an extra mag with extension. That little barker has over 2000 rounds through it and I did replace the recoil springs with some heavier ones, but once I found the right ammo it has been flawless. I can only hope Kahr does as good a job with my PM9.

[Hank Hill]

Please feel free to unburden your soul of any resentment you are holding in. It's toxic. The jury is still out with my case of the PM9 that died after 25 rounds. If they take care of me, and it really lasts for thousands of rounds, I'll be a convert. I doubt I'll even consider EDC until I have 500 rounds flawless through it. I shoot a lot, train a lot, and understand guns are mechanical devices. Springs and few other parts are expected to be replaced and moving parts need cleaning and lubrication. It's good your dealer took the hit and made you whole. But I really appreciate a good gun dealer and hate to see them pay for a manufacturer's bad product. I can see Kahr having serious PR problems. Just one or 2 bad CS experiences can affect a whole community of potential customers. When Ruger recalled the LCP, they sent me a prepaid label for shipping, with an apology.....did the work and in 2 weeks I had the gun back, plus a zippered case and an extra mag with extension. That little barker has over 2000 rounds through it and I did replace the recoil springs with some heavier ones, but once I found the right ammo it has been flawless. I can only hope Kahr does as good a job with my PM9.

My femail response from Kahr about how long my gun would be there for repairs (3 weeks at that point) was reponded to with a political chase-your-tail-ask-three-tiumes-to-get-an-answser type e-mail from them telling me my gun is in "queue" for repairs. Well that didn't answer my question. When my next e-mail asked him for an estimated time for repairs went unanswered, I knew it was time to replace the gun. Which I did.

My spideysenses tell me to see if Kahr Arms is publicly traded, then short them. Might make a few bucks on it.