SFO Aircraft Accident Tower Audio

[Longitude Zero]

That's why Navy pilots are so highly regarded.

Overstatment here. They are generally highly NOT because they have an approach over water but because they are landing on a very small moving target. Landing over water is not really anymore difficult than land. You have your altitude reference points and when you hit them it isnt a big deal.

[O'Dell]

now they are saying the capt. was new to the aircraft and what we call in the states I.O. E. training. Coming in over water to a runway that is11,381x200 feet and is not moving in the day time is not a big deal.Still should have been a non event.

I would tend to agree, but things aren't always as they seem. As a veteran of over 800 traps, I only had two "incidents". One was partially my fault. I received a late wave-off due to an aircraft across the limit line, but was too low and slow at the time, and my hook caught a wire before I could accelerate and climb. This is an in flight trap and slammed the aircraft onto the deck very hard. The other was due a hit by a SA-2 missile that damaged my Hydraulics and knocked out one engine. I did manage to get it on the deck, but it was touch and go. [no pun intended]

[cloud]

I would tend to agree, but things aren't always as they seem. As a veteran of over 800 traps, I only had two "incidents". One was partially my fault. I received a late wave-off due to an aircraft across the limit line, but was too low and slow at the time, and my hook caught a wire before I could accelerate and climb. This is an in flight trap and slammed the aircraft onto the deck very hard. The other was due a hit by a SA-2 missile that damaged my Hydraulics and knocked out one engine. I did manage to get it on the deck, but it was touch and go. [no pun intended]

I have nothing but respect for the pilots that land on aircraft carriers .11000 ft runway that is not pitching up and down and rolling left and right is not a big deal. Thanks for your service .Was that in an f4? You are correct things are not always as they seem .Do you remember this crash?

http://airlinesafety.com/editorials/Delta554.htm

[jocko]

the amazing thing to me is the amount of lives that were not lost.

[ltxi]

Not really. I was a mechanic for USAir for about eight years. I can't think of one pilot who deliberately wanted to crash a plane. The Japanese and Germans did it in WWII and the Jehadists did it on 9/11. If you crash a plane through pilot error it's usually your last opportunity to do so. Your either killed or fired. You'll do time in prison if negligence can be proven.

I never said nor implied he deliberately wanted to crash anything.

My point was not all pilots are good, nor even adequate. When I was young and naive I thought of pilots as semi-god like creatures. Then I joined the club and quickly realized how bad some really are/can be no matter their certificate level.

[Bawanna]

Ok, ok. I was flying the damn plane. First officer yelled pull up! and I thought he said shut up and the fight began. Some peoples children.

[getsome]

Roger, huh?.... Whats the Vector Victor?... Do we have Clearance Clerance?...Roger,... Huh

[Tinman507]

Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?
Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?


What kind of plane is it?
Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big Tylenol.

[Bawanna]

I would tend to agree, but things aren't always as they seem. As a veteran of over 800 traps, I only had two "incidents". One was partially my fault. I received a late wave-off due to an aircraft across the limit line, but was too low and slow at the time, and my hook caught a wire before I could accelerate and climb. This is an in flight trap and slammed the aircraft onto the deck very hard. The other was due a hit by a SA-2 missile that damaged my Hydraulics and knocked out one engine. I did manage to get it on the deck, but it was touch and go. [no pun intended]

800+ traps...that's a lot of traps. Pretty darn good record with that many and only a couple close ones. Did you know them Top Gun guys by any chance.

Just so you know, I've always wanted to do a carrier launch, but never had the slightest desire for a carrier landing. I'll ditch in the sea before trying to hit the postage stamp.

My hats off to ya sir, that's a lot of traps...I'm truly awed seriously.

[ltxi]

800+ traps...that's a lot of traps. Pretty darn good record with that many and only a couple close ones. Did you know them Top Gun guys by any chance.

Just so you know, I've always wanted to do a carrier launch, but never had the slightest desire for a carrier landing. I'll ditch in the sea before trying to hit the postage stamp.

My hats off to ya sir, that's a lot of traps...I'm truly awed seriously.

x2......

[O'Dell]

I have nothing but respect for the pilots that land on aircraft carriers .11000 ft runway that is not pitching up and down and rolling left and right is not a big deal. Thanks for your service .Was that in an f4? You are correct things are not always as they seem .Do you remember this crash?

http://airlinesafety.com/editorials/Delta554.htm

Yeah, I was an F-4 driver - F-4B until the missile strike. They salvaged what they could and pushed the rest over the side. The good news was that, afterwards, I got a shiny new F-4J.

All I meant about the accident is that we don't have all the info yet. It looks obvious now, but that's subject to change. I do know that I would hate to be in the Captain's or First Officer's shoes at this point.

[O'Dell]

800+ traps...that's a lot of traps. Pretty darn good record with that many and only a couple close ones. Did you know them Top Gun guys by any chance.

Just so you know, I've always wanted to do a carrier launch, but never had the slightest desire for a carrier landing. I'll ditch in the sea before trying to hit the postage stamp.

My hats off to ya sir, that's a lot of traps...I'm truly awed seriously.

Thanks Bawanna, but I had the greatest job in the world. Where else could you play with the Navy's latest toys, occasionally get to shoot at someone, and still get paid for it?

Oh, I forgot, no, I wasn't involved with Top Gun and never met any graduates while I was in the Navy. TG was started during my first tour in Southeast Asia, and when I got back to the States a couple of years later, I was assigned to Naval Intelligence in the Pentagon until I left the service. For some reason they wanted a fighter pilot that had flown against Soviet aircraft in actual combat.

[muggsy]

He had previously landed 777's at LAX, Narita, Seoul, and some others, not to mention the simulator landings to get type rated in 777's before actually flying them.

If I heard correctly those landings those landings were in 727s and 747s. I could be wrong. He definitely had 777 simulator training.

[Planedude]

Well every pilot in the world had a first landing in an aircraft type and they will all have a last landing in type...

Seems he killed both those birds with the same stone.

[skiflydive]

If I heard correctly those landings those landings were in 727s and 747s. I could be wrong. He definitely had 777 simulator training.

My take was those were 777 landings. He'd landed 747's at SFO several times.

I think it odd that the throttles were at idle. It takes power to maintain level flight in any aircraft. A 777 has a pretty good sink rate with no power but still isn't a very good glider. It's all just speculation but to me this sounds like a higher than normal initial approach altitude, possibly commanded by the approach controller, and then a power off descent to intercept the normal 3.00 degree final approach angle. The final approach angle, glideslope if you will, is normally intercepted from below and then power is reduced to initiate the descent. If the aircraft is above the 3.00 approach angle and power is reduced more than normal to intercept it can be difficult to accurately power back up without descending through the approach. Add to that that the ILS glideslope and the PAPI approach angle guidance lights were both out of service it would have been a challenging and abnormal approach in any aircraft let alone a heavy category aircraft.