Not trying to start a range war, but ..

[mr surveyor]

I like all of my carry guns and have a fairly small collection but diverse. They all have their place and all get used, or they're gone. The only ones that work as intended with shot shells are my .38, .357 and .44 revolvers .... and
"on the farm" or "in the woods", that option has always been near and dear to me. I couldn't tell you how many snakes and rats I killed around our barns back in the '70s with one or two shot shells loaded up front, and that was with a 9 shot .22 cal H&R 949 revolver I carried (only on the farm).

As for burying one of my guns in the sand .... total BS. I figure 40 years worth of toting some kind of revolver on dirty jobs gives me all the insight I need. Also, I never said that there were no semi-autos capable of dealing with nasty conditions .... Mr. Browning's Perfection proved that over 100 years ago. The typical "consumer grade concealed handguns" and competition grade guns are just made to too tight a tolerance for me to have to deal with. And, besides, I value the ability to carry the shot shells "in season".

[onemule]

Whats the main purpose of the gun on the farm. Two legged varmints or 4 legged varmints.

For the farm, mainly 4 legged creatures. Black bears, cougars, wolves, coyotes, badgers, raccoons, and skunks are the main concern, in rough order of challenge. My neighbor dropped by the other day and asked if I had spotted the bear that many of our other neighbors had seen. I have not, but something took out one of my horses and managed to drag her a few yards. By the time I found the remains, I could not make out tracks of what did it. But if it can drag a 1200+ lb horse, I would not want to have a close encounter with it when unarmed, especially in the dark. The raccoons and skunks I'm mainly concerned about because of rabies, although they get in my barn and cause problems now that my old dog has passed away. Barn cats don't bark very loudly. But I would like to be carrying when I go into the barn at night, especially if a bear decides to inspect it.

In the past couple of years there's been a significant increase in the number of strangers who drive up into the barnyard, look around and drive off. My house and outbuildings are in a grove set a couple of hundred yards back from the road, and most people don't spot them even when looking for them. I enjoy the secluded nature of the location, but that has security negatives as well as positives. So I have decided I would like to be armed 24/7 on the farm.

Usually a carbine makes a better on the farm gun but maybe your in a bad farm neighborhood.

Granted. Most of the time a carbine trumps a pistol. I have a carbine, but I am not going to carry it continually the way I would an appropriately sized pistol. I have, however, been thinking about carrying it in my Gator when I'm out checking livestock or the fence, etc. Based on some of the comments on this forum, I'm also thinking of rigging a scabbard for it under the roof of my tractor. I hadn't thought of that before, but it could be very handy since may of my sightings of varmints have been when I was on the tractor.

Even if I had the carbine in both these machines, I would still want to carry a pistol. For example, one evening in the field I had to crawl under my baler to rethread the twine through one of the twine feeder arms, which is a real pain and dirty and awkward in a very confined space. As I pushed the loose hay out of the way, I found myself staring down the bore of a fresh badger mound. Badgers are members of the weasel family, if I understand correctly, and they can be pretty aggressive if they get riled. Fortunately, this one didn't show up, but if it had, a carbine in the tractor would not have helped me. I found myself wishing I had a gun within reach on my body somewhere, even in the dirt and grime of making hay.

So while a carbine is an excellent weapon, and I plan to start making better use of it, I still feel the need for a handgun on my body.

A one gun to do all eliminates my thought of revolver on the farm and CW else where.

I agree, although other may legitimately differ with our conclusion. I'm looking for something very slim for carry, and revolvers aren't slim. I have a large frame Dan Wesson in .357 mag that I'm fond of. However, it weighs 32 oz. loaded and sporting the 2.5" snub nose barrel, and the cylinder is 2" wide. When I was younger, I was comforted by the weight on my side when I carried it, but now that I'm older and having health issues, I really want something as light as possible, consistent with effectiveness. I realize there's a tradeoff there.

Also, the Dan is blued and beautiful in my eyes, so I would be reluctant to carry it in the dirt and sand and sweat and rain. It is a sweet shooting gun, though, and very accurate with the longer barrels. I have a lot of confidence in it for home defense. I've checked out some of the stainless steel revolvers, and while appealing, they seem outside the size and weight range of what I'm looking for.

A proper holster is a must for the Glock or XDS, Kahr too but its more forgiving.

Any suggestions on holsters would be appreciated, especially for the Kahrs, which I'm now leaning toward. I'm seriously trying to find something powerful and reliable that I can keep in my front right pants pocket, but IWB carry would work for some of my carry circumstances. OWB would probably work on the farm most of the time, but crawling under equipment in the dirt, I'd probably rather have it in my front, right pants pocket. In that particular position, I think the XD-S would have an edge in safety over the Kahrs, given the trigger and grip safeties that are so unpopular with many.

Thanks for your suggestions and insights. I apologize for the delay in reply. I've been pretty heavily loaded lately and should be elsewhere even now. I appreciate your and everyone else's taking the time to respond. I also greatly appreciate the courtesy with which everyone has replied.

[Bawanna]

You definitely want a scabbard on your tractor, we always had a rifle on ours in my youth back in Missouri, even the open tractors had a scabbard. My cousin made an unbelievable shot on a coyote, over 300 yards with iron sights with a 303 British. Didn't even look for it but when my uncle harvested the field later on he found it. One in a million blind hog shots.

I agree having a gun on ya all the time is a big plus, and a Kahr in the pocket would be a good fit. A small J frame with some shot shells for those smaller critters would be nice though too.

For the bears, cougars, coyotes and even badgers, a handgun ain't gonna cut it. Probably won't run into them too much under your hay baler though.
I was thinking of a pocket holster in the front of bib overalls. Course if you don't wear bib overalls, I think that might not work.

I'm also thinking some sort of pouch on the belt for a little more protection, not as quick on the draw but a lot quicker than going to the gator for a rifle.

Whatever you use your just gonna have to clean it frequently.

[Barth]

For the farm, mainly 4 legged creatures. Black bears, cougars, wolves, coyotes, badgers, raccoons, and skunks are the main concern, in rough order of challenge.

I have a large frame Dan Wesson in .357 mag that I'm fond of. However, it weighs 32 oz. loaded and sporting the 2.5" snub nose barrel, and the cylinder is 2" wide. When I was younger, I was comforted by the weight on my side when I carried it, but now that I'm older and having health issues, I really want something as light as possible, consistent with effectiveness. I realize there's a tradeoff there.

I've checked out some of the stainless steel revolvers, and while appealing, they seem outside the size and weight range of what I'm looking for.

WOW
I guess all things are relative.
For a black bear I pretty much want a 44 mag, shotgun or carbine.

My HK USP45 Tactical weights ~32 oz and I carry that regularly and love it.
A Ruger SP101 or S&W 640 is only going to weigh about 23/25 oz and are easily concealed.
I think you may have given up on stainless revolvers without really looking at what's available.
I don't know how you're going to get anything smaller than a J-Frame having any decent power.
IMHO, with some hard cast bullets, a 357 Mag snubbie would work in a pinch.

There are air weight 357 Mag J-Frames (12/15 oz).
I've never shot one. And have no intentions of doing so in the future.

[onemule]

seems like I may have responded to this same thread on another forum in the last week or so, but I'll do it again here as I don't thing I "qualified" my response with any personal experience.

Actually, I did post on the XD-S forum when I was considering that pistol, and I appreciate your reply now as well as then. I am particularly interested because you have experienced the kind of conditions I am concerned with.

The XDs is a fine handgun for it's intended purpose, and I have no doubt that Springfield (like any other quality manufacturer) will take care of any issues.

I still like the XD-S, but I think I may like the Kahrs better. Time will tell. However, I also think I may give the XD-S a little more time to mature before buying into that line. I was really close to making the leap before the recall. Thinking about the hassle and frustration of dealing with that and not having the gun I had worked so hard to acquire simply was not appealing to me, even though it reasonably is necessary, and I appreciate Springfield's biting the bullet to make their guns good.

I still say get a good used (stainless) wheel gun in the smallest package of the largest caliber you can comfortably handle and learn to shoot it.

For my "field duties" I've always carried a revolver of some sort and never had a problem, with the exception of fighting the rusties on the blued models after they get rained on or a bit too much sweat. The stainless SP101 I've been carrying for the last 3 years or so gets wiped off once a week, or after a frog strangling rain event, or after a range trip.

Based on your earlier, similar input, I have taken the opportunity to check out some stainless revolvers. I still have not come across an SP101 or similar, unfortunately. However, all the revolvers I've seen are still wider and heavier than I want. Nevertheless, I like the .357 mag and would appreciate ammo compatibility between a new revolver and my Dan Wesson. So, I'm still looking at revolvers, but my hopes of finding one that will fit my requirements are declining.

As regards reliability under most circumstances, revolvers are great, but I don't think I would be worried about a Glock's working in my conditions. I have just been wondering whether the Kahrs could handle the same challenge.

Five rounds of hot .357 mag is enough for anything I may encounter on the farm or the woods. Being able to load up a round or two of snake shot when "in season" is definitely a plus to me as well.

I think highly of the .357 mag, which is why I have been intrigued by the idea of .357 sig for pistols. I have no doubt either caliber would be plenty for my anticipated needs. Before I moved here, I also used to carry snake shot at times, but there are reportedly no poisonous snakes here, so I don't worry about that anymore.

Maybe buy a Kahr CW AND a wheel gun of your choice surv

If one of the CM or PM pistols doesn't work out, I may have to bite the bullet and get different guns, one for farm and one for off farm. Even one is a stretch currently.

Thanks again for your thoughtful reply.

[onemule]

As I mentioned before I would look for a used Glock 26/27/30 as they can be found at attractive prices and are quite capable of living in dirty conditions and still work. I believe I also mentioned smaller framed CZ's, but there tough to find and finding a decent used one is almost impossible. .. Glocks are very plain bare bones looking pistols with fewer parts, and about as attractive as a day old Cow Patty. In your case, This is a good thing though as there is not as many little nooks and crannies for dirty to get into. .. So my answer still remains Find a used G26/27/30, Especially if a wheel gun is out of the question.

I have heeded your advice and looked for used Glocks. In my neck of the woods, opportunities for used Glocks, or even new ones, are slim. The only one I've found looked pretty bad, and they wanted almost as much as a new one for it. But I will keep looking. Finding an affordable Glock for farm work would certainly reduce the constraints on finding a suitable off-farm carry weapon.

I had never heard of CZ's before your earlier post. I have looked for them too, but I have yet to see one. There doesn't seem to be that much about them even online, but perhaps I haven't searched hard enough. Maybe one will turn up at a gun show.

[onemule]

I carry a pm45 iny front jeans pocket...always. Grit, sand, lint, seeds, dust, sweat, rain, hydraulic fluid ....dont ask, Holding up nice since 2010. Every few weeks i field strip and wipe the crud out pf the bore and check the rest. A little break free and wete good to go. The used one i got has never failed to fire or feed. The new one had a few feed issues till about 300 rds of wwb ammo...not the best for breakin. Now its faultless too.

And...rides there in the pocket on the harley too. 200 miles yesterday alone. Fifty o that in monsoon rain. Zero....zero rust issues. I dont even check for rust any more.

Now that sounds very much like what I'm looking for. I'd want to make sure it was sufficiently concealed in my pocket. Otherwise, I might go for a PM40 or PM9, despite my preference for .45.

I hear you on the hydraulic fluid, although I forgot to mention it in my list of things my pistol would need to stand up to. Sometimes I think of farming as equal parts dirt, hydraulic fluid, and sweat - not to mention manure.

Thanks for your encouraging report. If the PM45 passes my concealability test, I may just get one and see how well it handles the farm grunge before investing in a second weapon.

[Bawanna]

PM45 would be my first choice based on your wants and needs. Second choice would be the PM9. I would pass on the 40. Too much bang for such a small package.

[onemule]

I would not hesitate to carry my Kahr PM40 under any condition and I do. If it gets dirty, wet, etc...., I clean it. Takes only a few minutes. You can certainly protect it to a certain degree by how you carry it....good holster or IWB. Mine gets sweaty and dusty all the time when I'm out on my tractor, food plots, etc.... No problem. Very reliable. I'm sure there are a number of guns out there that will do the job for you, but you need to decide which gun fits the job you intend for it....and why you are carrying it. I agree that no one gun does it all. Best to have a few...

Thanks for this report. Although I prefer .45 to .40, primarily because of the feel - and I like big bullets and big holes, I have been thinking seriously about the PM40 as an alternative to the PM45 because it is significantly smaller in regards to pocket carry. However, I'm still trying to find either one of them to check out. I did get my hands on a CW45 yesterday, but it was much too big for my pocket. I really liked the feel of the grips compared to the Glock's, though.

[onemule]

The revolver is certainly better for snake shot. I pocket carry my PM9 in dirty conditions and don't worry about it. I use a Stays-Put holster, which keeps it cleaner than the DeSantis did.

I crawl around under trucks doing maintenance, have it while on the tractor, mowing, or digging dirt. Frankly, if pocket carried, I still don't have to clean it very often. I try to shoot and clean it monthly (I shoot it after carrying for a month, then clean it). But, sometimes I go twice that long.

It has been at least 4 years now, and all is well. The thing still looks great too.

Almost forgot, I also wear it to nice, clean occasions too. I don't see any reason to change guns for different affairs.

Cool. Thanks.

[onemule]

I carry either a 6" .357 Dan Wesson Model 14, or my Charter Arms .44 Special Snubbie, with 2.5 inch barrel, depending on what chores I'm doing. The C.A. is nice and light and you hardly notice it's there, and I use it mainly while working close to the house to protect mostly from 2 legged varmints, while the Dan Wesson gives you the ability to reach out a lot farther and tag a coyote or one of these feral dogs that get pretty vicious after running alone or in a small group out in the country here. I remember going out my front door once and being growled at by a couple of wild rottweilers. it being a very hot summer day and not wanting to dig holes in the ground, took one shot towards their feet and sent them scampering. Thinking back, I probably should have tagged the pair, and possibly saved some young child from getting attacked getting on or off the school bus.
City Folks, don't dump your unwanted animals out here in the country. They are not going to run free and have a happy life like on Disney, they are just going to meet an unpleasant death, either from coyotes, or other varmints, or farmers protecting their livestock.

How wide is the cylinder on your Charter Arms? Any idea of the weight?

[onemule]

ONEMULE, just to clarify a little bit, Glock has stated over and over that their guns have been run over by trucks, buried in sand, frozen in blocks of ice and dropped from helicopters and have still worked, and frankly, I don't much doubt any of that. I have five Glocks, 19, 23, 26, 27 and 36 and I just could not bring myself to subject them to that kind of torture. If I were, "In the Business," so to speak I probably would want to subject them to those tests for my own piece of mind.

However, in your case, just trying to think of a best, effective, economical answer for your problem.

By the way, I have a Springfield XDs .45 which I just this morning Fedexed to Springfield for the recall (feces happens). Glock has always claimed Perfection but we now know that's a tall order. I have no trouble whatsoever recommending The XDs for EDC. And fyi, for the past 12 years my EDC has been a Kahr P9 and It too has been flawless and a great carry gun.

Anyway, thank you for starting a lively debate and good luck with your finale choice.

Best,
bp

Thanks! I really appreciate the on-target, courteous replies I have received on this forum. I'm receiving a lot of useful input and trying to broaden my thinking to consider more options than I had before. So, thanks to all for taking time and thought to reply.

[onemule]

To answer your question: Both are reliable, although some guns are lemons. They all get dirty and wet and they all get cleaned. Everybody is different in preference. When I purchased my first handgun, my trainer refused to tell me what to buy...depends how you plan to use it and how you plan to carry it, etc... It is like buying a boat. You know what I mean? You might first decide those things and then narrow it down from there. Handle them and shoot them if you can. I would not buy a gun without handling it first. There is no one perfect gun for everything. I've been happy with my Kahr PM. It is small, light, easily concealed, reliable, accurate. It was not cheap. It carries nice. It gets filthy at times and I could not tell you if it would have worked or not because if I see it filthy, I clean her. I'd expect you will do the same thing. Best of luck with your decision.

There's definitely no substitute for handling a gun. I like the grip on the Glocks better than the XD-S, but I thought the grip on the CW45 yesterday was way better than those on the Glocks. Now if I could just find a place to test fire the few candidates I settle on.

[onemule]

Vietnam is why god invented the the M60 Smith. Worked out pretty well. So that or an M65 would be my choice. Glocks work well dirty, but I don't trust their trigger system for crawling around/in/under stuff like you're doin'.

Yeah, that's been a concern for me about the Kahrs as well. The XD-S safety system may be overkill for most people, but it might keep someone like me from getting killed accidentally. Things grab and poke when working on equipment.

[Longitude Zero]

Also Springfield has recently issued a recall on various XDS models. If the weapon is going to e in the dirt so to speak go with Glock. They have been subjected to torture tests far worse than anything normal wear and tear will dish out.