Not trying to start a range war, but ..

[onemule]

I would think the glock line would come out close to the top of my crapy tests but again, top does not mean it is gonna be the best choice for the job. Course wheel guns have their drawbacks. so WTF.. live with it.

"live with it" is certainly key. A learning experience does you little good, at least in this world, if you don't survive it.

[onemule]

If one of your choice guns is a Glock 30s, like you said, why are you concerned about concealing it? Sure, it's thicker and not as easy to conceal as the Kahr but still very doable. Many guys conceal this and larger handguns every day. I have no problem concealing a Glock 17 in a crossbreed Super Tuck or a VMII. You just have to dress around the firearm. The same could be said for a revolver. You could carry one in the field as well as for normal cc situations. Sure, it'd be nice to own a gun for every situation but it sounds like that's not in your budget. Just a thought...

That's a very legitimate question and one I've asked of myself. Why can so many people feel a Glock 23 or 30S works as a concealable weapon but not for me? I may just be terribly ignorant in this area. I'm sure I am. But I have two environments I go into each week where I think I should be carrying, but clothing constraints seem to leave me with only two options, well concealed pocket carry or very well concealed ankle carry. None of the Glocks I've looked at seem to work for me in this way, not even the 27 or 36. Even the CW45 seemed too large for this kind of concealment, although I liked the weapon and was tempted to buy it for the farm work.

The XD-S seems possibly, marginally acceptable for my particular concealment needs. So, that pretty much leaves me looking at the PM/CM series. Based on their size relative to the XD-S, I think they would work nicely, but I have yet to get my hands on one to try out.

The size of the small .380's works well for me, but I want to avoid that caliber.

[onemule]

You definitely want a scabbard on your tractor, we always had a rifle on ours in my youth back in Missouri, even the open tractors had a scabbard. My cousin made an unbelievable shot on a coyote, over 300 yards with iron sights with a 303 British. Didn't even look for it but when my uncle harvested the field later on he found it. One in a million blind hog shots.

I agree having a gun on ya all the time is a big plus, and a Kahr in the pocket would be a good fit. A small J frame with some shot shells for those smaller critters would be nice though too.

For the bears, cougars, coyotes and even badgers, a handgun ain't gonna cut it. Probably won't run into them too much under your hay baler though.
I was thinking of a pocket holster in the front of bib overalls. Course if you don't wear bib overalls, I think that might not work.

I'm also thinking some sort of pouch on the belt for a little more protection, not as quick on the draw but a lot quicker than going to the gator for a rifle.

Whatever you use your just gonna have to clean it frequently.

That's quite a shot on a coyote at 300 yards with open sights. He must have had some skill mixed in with that luck.

I'm glad you appreciate how tough badgers are. Some people I've talked with have more of a Walt Disney impression of them. However, I think a .40 or .45 would handle any of them, although I would be much more confident on the bear with a .45 (whether or not my confidence would be justified is another matter).

I retired my summer weight bibs when my girth outgrew my last pair, so that's not going to work for haying. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

I don't want to give the impression I leave my guns dirty. I try to keep them clean. I just know there are going to be plenty of times when they'll get dirty while I'm working, and I may need to use them in that condition. Have gun, will clean.

[Barth]

That's quite a shot on a coyote at 300 yards with open sights. He must have had some skill mixed in with that luck.

I'm glad you appreciate how tough badgers are. Some people I've talked with have more of a Walt Disney impression of them. However, I think a .40 or .45 would handle any of them, although I would be much more confident on the bear with a .45 (whether or not my confidence would be justified is another matter).

I retired my summer weight bibs when my girth outgrew my last pair, so that's not going to work for haying. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

I don't want to give the impression I leave my guns dirty. I try to keep them clean. I just know there are going to be plenty of times when they'll get dirty while I'm working, and I may need to use them in that condition. Have gun, will clean.

Best advise I've ever heard about using a .45 ACP against a bear.
Is to save the last bullet for yourself.

[onemule]

My HK USP45 Tactical weights ~32 oz and I carry that regularly and love it.
A Ruger SP101 or S&W 640 is only going to weigh about 23/25 oz and are easily concealed.
I think you may have given up on stainless revolvers without really looking at what's available.

My Dan Wesson at 32 oz. is just too much for me to lug around for long anymore. Part of the problem of getting old, I guess, plus health issues as I mentioned.

23/25 oz is not much more than most of the Glocks.

I'm still looking at the stainless revolvers, but I don't have a lot of hope there due to the fact that there's an inherent limit on how small you can make the cylinder for a given caliber. Nevertheless, a light weight revolver is still an option if I have to go the two-gun route.

Black bear? I know of people taking them with .22 mag, but not I. A hand cannon might be more comforting, but would I carry it all the time? I think a .45 would be adequate. If I live to tell about it, I'll let you know. If not, I guess you'll have to find out some other way. Sorry about that.

[onemule]

PM45 would be my first choice based on your wants and needs. Second choice would be the PM9. I would pass on the 40. Too much bang for such a small package.

Thanks. I wondered about that. I just don't like the snappiness of the .40. Maybe it's just me. I just really enjoy the .45. It feels "right" to me. The 9 mm should be adequate for self-defense against humans, but I do wonder whether it would be adequate against cougar and bear and even badger at close quarters on short notice. Shot placement would be critical in that circumstance but realistically not likely to be optimal.

[onemule]

Best advise I've ever heard about using a .45 ACP against a bear.
Is to save the last bullet for yourself.

You might talk me into carrying a .44 mag. So much for Glocks or Kahrs. Back to Ruger Super Blackhawk or Redhawk, but 45+ oz?

[berettabone]

I was taking a walk through a nearby park, and there was a man and woman sitting there, enjoying the sun. We got to talking and I found out that they like to hike, just like my wife and I, and they do it all over the country. The woman asked me if we had ever hiked where there were bears. I said we hadn't recently, but yes. She asked how to feel safer when out in the woods. I told her that I always carry a firearm. Albeit, maybe not a big enough one, but I always have one with me. She said, " Oh lord no, we could never do that." I said, " Then your best bet, is to get a big can of bear spray, and buy a bunch of little bells, and attach them to your clothing." That way, the bear can hear you coming." She asked, " How do we know if there are bears in the area?" I replied, " You look for their scat." She asked, " What's scat?" I said, " You know, their crap." She says, " Oh, yeah." She says, " What does it look like?" I replied, " Look for it on the ground, you'll know when you see it, it smells like bear spray, and it has little bells in it."

[Barth]

I was taking a walk through a nearby park, and there was a man and woman sitting there, enjoying the sun. We got to talking and I found out that they like to hike, just like my wife and I, and they do it all over the country. The woman asked me if we had ever hiked where there were bears. I said we hadn't recently, but yes. She asked how to feel safer when out in the woods. I told her that I always carry a firearm. Albeit, maybe not a big enough one, but I always have one with me. She said, " Oh lord no, we could never do that." I said, " Then your best bet, is to get a big can of bear spray, and buy a bunch of little bells, and attach them to your clothing." That way, the bear can hear you coming." She asked, " How do we know if there are bears in the area?" I replied, " You look for their scat." She asked, " What's scat?" I said, " You know, their crap." She says, " Oh, yeah." She says, " What does it look like?" I replied, " Look for it on the ground, you'll know when you see it, it smells like bear spray, and it has little bells in it."

[onemule]

i was taking a walk through a nearby park, and there was a man and woman sitting there, enjoying the sun. We got to talking and i found out that they like to hike, just like my wife and i, and they do it all over the country. The woman asked me if we had ever hiked where there were bears. I said we hadn't recently, but yes. She asked how to feel safer when out in the woods. I told her that i always carry a firearm. Albeit, maybe not a big enough one, but i always have one with me. She said, " oh lord no, we could never do that." i said, " then your best bet, is to get a big can of bear spray, and buy a bunch of little bells, and attach them to your clothing." that way, the bear can hear you coming." she asked, " how do we know if there are bears in the area?" i replied, " you look for their scat." she asked, " what's scat?" i said, " you know, their crap." she says, " oh, yeah." she says, " what does it look like?" i replied, " look for it on the ground, you'll know when you see it, it smells like bear spray, and it has little bells in it."

lol!!!

[Barth]

You might talk me into carrying a .44 mag. So much for Glocks or Kahrs. Back to Ruger Super Blackhawk or Redhawk, but 45+ oz?

My S&W 629-2 4" 44 mag Mountain Gun weights 38 oz
I understand that at close range a 44 Mag is something like a 30 30 when taking deer.

[onemule]

If the reported black bear in the area turns out to be a grizzly, I'll forget about carrying a handgun on the farm and buy an H&H .375 magnum instead. I will make it my constant companion.

I realize people have taken grizzlies with a .44 magnum, but I don't believe in messing with grizzlies. I used to live in the Yukon Territory and have heard too many stories of people dying from using lesser rifle calibers (including 30-06) on grizzlies. I used to carry a 7mm Remington magnum there, but changed my mind despite its supposed adequacy for grizzly.

I did have one prospector friend who carried a shotgun instead of a rifle. He said if you had the nerve to hold your shot until the bear was really close, it was more effective than a rifle. Just don't forget to let off the safety.

[onemule]

My S&W 629-2 4" 44 mag Mountain Gun weights 38 oz

Sweet looking weapon!

[Barth]

If the reported black bear in the area turns out to be a grizzly, I'll forget about carrying a handgun on the farm and buy an H&H .375 magnum instead. I will make it my constant companion.

I realize people have taken grizzlies with a .44 magnum, but I don't believe in messing with grizzlies. I used to live in the Yukon Territory and have heard too many stories of people dying from using lesser rifle calibers (including 30-06) on grizzlies. I used to carry a 7mm Remington magnum there, but changed my mind despite its supposed adequacy for grizzly.

I did have one prospector friend who carried a shotgun instead of a rifle. He said if you had the nerve to hold your shot until the bear was really close, it was more effective than a rifle. Just don't forget to let off the safety.

I think I read that the guides used shotguns in Africa when things went horribly wrong on the hunt.

I really don't recommend anything short of a heavy rifle or shotgun for bear.
But If a pistol is the only option?
IMHO a magnum revolver is in order.

[Barth]

S&W Magnum Force