What part of range safety don't you understand?

[b4uqzme]

That's not my notion of Freedom.

Diane Feinstein's notion of freedom is that everyone should be free to walk about in a world completely without guns. Is my point getting through yet?

[jocko]

not worth arguing over IMO. It is what it is. We can agree to disagree. To many fokking laws now. i just don't see the similarity of a drivers license and a ccw permit. They canb't regulate what is between my ears--course the fokkers are trying..

[jocko]

wtf

Requiring a demonstration of simple knowledge that you can safely operate something dangerous,
like a car or gun, before being allowed to own/use it just makes sense.
It creates a safer environment for folks own/operate these things.
For themselves and others.

Does that magically make everything safe? No
Does knowledge make these things safer for all of us? I say yes.

a lawn mower is dangerous for some. Or a damn chain saw.. LIfe is fullof dangers, but the biggest danger I see today is the fokking legislature people who think they can just keep passing assinine laws and it will take care of things..

[Barth]

Diane Feinstein's notion of freedom is that everyone should be free to walk about in a world completely without guns. Is my point getting through yet?

Not at all.
Not even close.

Jocko has it right.
We agree to disagree.

[b4uqzme]

There is nothing worth arguing about more...

[Tilos]

I'll try to be brief.

I have a 30-30 Contender. I took it to one of the outdoor public ranges to shoot it. Depending on which elbow is running the booth they sometimes have me shoot on the rifle range, sometimes the pistol range. So I always tell them what I have and ask where to go.
This time he says pistol range. Says there's a range officer up there and one other member.
Off I go.

I get up there and there's a member in their little cordoned off area, a guy with his son, and a fat bald headed drill sgt type that I've dealt with in the past.
So I acknowledge their presence and lay my gear out on the bench.
Mr. Drill Sgt tells me to go ahead down and hand a target. So I according to the rules walk over to flip a switch that activates an obnoxious bell and flashing lights. Before I get there he tells me don't flip that switch, I'm sick of hearing it, just go down, I'll watch for you.
I confirmed that he was sure that's what he wanted me to do and hustled down to hang my target.
I come back and I notice they are BSing and Mr. Drill Sgt doesn't have his ear muffs on.
He finally hollers down and ask if I'm gonna shoot or what? So I informed him I had a large caliber gun and noticed he didn't have his muffs on and didn't want to damage his hearing. His response was hell my ears have been burned so many times don't worry about it, just go on........

Well I wanted to but I'm just not gonna do it, this Contender is louder than hell and especially so under cover in this enclosed area. So I notice that he's finishing up his conversation and started my way, he has to pass me to get to the exit baffle and out.

So I real slow like grab a 30-30 case by the rim and hold it up to load so I'm sure he can see it. I note he starts to pick up his pace considerable. Right before he gets to me I drop it in the chamber and close the action, at this point he broke into a full out run or as close to a full out run as a 300 pound drill sgt can accomplish. I aim down range, but I'm watching him and as soon as he bounced off the end wall and pushed himself around the corner I let if off. Dust flew out of the ceiling, I think the members kid actually swore.
Mr. Drill Sgt pokes his head around the corner and says you almost got me you little bastard! Semi joking, semi serious. I explained to him that I had him anytime I wanted, it was only cause I was such a nice guy that he's able to hear at all and no charge for the exercise of the 30ft dash he just completed.

Member and his son come down right off and wanted to know what kind of canon I just shot. Both father and son ended up shooting it, the son with a lot of support and supervision of course.

I like to think I gave Mr. Drill Sgt a nice lesson that day but I heard not much changed. That was 20 years ago. I recently looked into going back figuring things might have improved but alas I was told it was exactly the same.

I still chuckle about it to this day.

I had similar things go down about everytime I showed up with my 30 Herret TC.
Except I was an officer of the club but most of the plinkers didn't know that.

I'd start to setup on a rifle bench and they'd tell me to go to the pistol line.
So I'd put a target out at 100 yards, climb up on the bench and get into a creedmore position.
I loaded that thing with W680 and it had a 3 foot fireball.
One time it was near dusk and after 2 shots, all the guys from the rifle line came over to the pistol line.
The noise of the 1st shot got their attention and the fireball of the 2nd got them walking my way to see what the hell I was shooting.
I'd offer to let anyone shoot it but never had any takers

[jocko]

Tilols: luv ur signature line. someone on this forum sent me a photo of a small barbecue shop in thesouth and on the sign it said, u won't find any Muslims eating here..

[Barth]

a lawn mower is dangerous for some. Or a damn chain saw.. LIfe is fullof dangers, but the biggest danger I see today is the fokking legislature people who think they can just keep passing assinine laws and it will take care of things..

The difference is risk to others.
If you F up with a mower or chain saw?
You F up yourself, generally not others.
Want to operate one with zero knowledge? Have at it.

But operation of cars and handguns,
without basic safety knowledge, poses a risk to others (i.e. me).

[Tinman507]

The analogy between firearms and cars is flawed. Yes both are dangerous, but only one is constitutionally mandated.

You need training and a license test to drive a car. The majority of Americans go through the hoops to do this. If the politicians decided tomorrow to adopt the German system where it takes years and thousands of dollars in training and driving classes, the majority of the American public would go berserk and throw the bums out.

Firearm owners are the minority. If we permit ANY sort of required training to carry a concealed firearm all it takes is the stroke of a pen to ramp up the regulations to something none of us could afford. We don't collectively have enough political clout to throw the bums out. They will effectively limit who can own and carry a firearm.

I think it's a great idea to voluntarily seek firearm training. I do not want to see mandated training. It's a slippery slope that doesn't end well for any of us.

[jocko]

More [people are killed by vehicle drivers than any utter means of death in this cuntry.
Sorry, I ain' t buy in into that..

[Barth]

More [people are killed by vehicle drivers than any utter means of death in this cuntry.
Sorry, I ain' t buy in into that..

And you truly believe the death rate would't rise
if driver education and licencing wasn't required? Really?

[jocko]

I didn't say that either, but I am not sure that you have a dimes worth of proof of any more danger of people in Indian getting a ccw permit with zero anything except the money to get it and age of 18 over Ohio or Illinois who has shooting requireents of some sort.

I really feel a drivers license is a priveldge where a gun ownership is a constitutional right. It was only until our money graqbing legislatures thought of a permit with a fee did this ccw sh!t ever get started. all education of some type is good, I won';t argue that, I will argue the mandatory part for some things.

I have lived here in Indiana and I have never read or seen of any person with a CCw permit doing anything that was later on deemed to be "lack of knowledge". and even at that one bad apple should not ruin the barrel either.

I gather u might like to have the government more in ur life. I certainly don't

[Barth]

The analogy between firearms and cars is flawed. Yes both are dangerous, but only one is constitutionally mandated.

You need training and a license test to drive a car. The majority of Americans go through the hoops to do this. If the politicians decided tomorrow to adopt the German system where it takes years and thousands of dollars in training and driving classes, the majority of the American public would go berserk and throw the bums out.

Firearm owners are the minority. If we permit ANY sort of required training to carry a concealed firearm all it takes is the stroke of a pen to ramp up the regulations to something none of us could afford. We don't collectively have enough political clout to throw the bums out. They will effectively limit who can own and carry a firearm.

I think it's a great idea to voluntarily seek firearm training. I do not want to see mandated training. It's a slippery slope that doesn't end well for any of us.

Cars didn't exist when the constitution was written.
I understand needing to draw the line on gun rights.
And the never ending attempt by some to slowly erode these rights.
But requiring a demonstration of simple gun safety knowledge before ownership just makes sense.
And doesn't have to be a stepping stone to further restrictions.

If you don't know the four basic rules of gun saftey?
RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
You don't get to own a gun till you learn them.
Me living safe is part of me living free.

[Bawanna]

Everything is a stepping stone towards further restrictions.

[Tinman507]

We as the firearm owners need to be self policing. We need to insist anyone we shoot with or near or at our clubs and ranges get training. We need to promote the NRA and other firearms groups and promote the safe handling courses and youth safety programs. It needs to be us.

The second the government gets involved, you end up with Obamacare.