Kel-Tec PF9 Vs Kahr PM9

[Willieboy]

I guess people have had different experiences with Kel-Tecs. I've owned a P11 for years and it's been a nice little pistol. It's been reliable and accurate with good firepower for a pistol its size. I have had Teddy Jacobson, owner of Actions by T, do action/trigger jobs on a couple of my guns, one revolver and one pistol. I thought enough of the P11 to ask Teddy to look over the P11 and perform his magic on the gun. Teddy would not even consider working on a Kel-Tec, so low was his opinion of Kel-Tecs. They were not worth his time.

When It came time to invest in a single stack nine, I thought about the PF9, but Teddy's words kept ringing in my ears. So, I ponied up the cash for the PM9 and with Jocko's help and several hundred rounds of ammo, I believe I have a reliable pistol.

As an aside, and for what it's worth, Teddy also warned me off Smith and Wesson guns. He does a great deal of work on guns for local police officers and he does not like what he sees when he opens up a S&W.

[LatinGunNut]

I guess people have had different experiences with Kel-Tecs. I've owned a P11 for years and it's been a nice little pistol. It's been reliable and accurate with good firepower for a pistol its size. I have had Teddy Jacobson, owner of Actions by T, do action/trigger jobs on a couple of my guns, one revolver and one pistol. I thought enough of the P11 to ask Teddy to look over the P11 and perform his magic on the gun. Teddy would not even consider working on a Kel-Tec, so low was his opinion of Kel-Tecs. They were not worth his time.

When It came time to invest in a single stack nine, I thought about the PF9, but Teddy's words kept ringing in my ears. So, I ponied up the cash for the PM9 and with Jocko's help and several hundred rounds of ammo, I believe I have a reliable pistol.

As an aside, and for what it's worth, Teddy also warned me off Smith and Wesson guns. He does a great deal of work on guns for local police officers and he does not like what he sees when he opens up a S&W.

Just check any of the hundreds of reviews online and I've never heard any of the famous online gun reviewers say that Kel-Tecs are junk.

In the case of the PF9, the first generation had many problems, which is what many of you may remember, but all those issues were resolved 3-4 years ago.

Mine had one failure to eject during the break in period. It has around 600-700 rds and never had any problems.

To defend the qualities of the PM9 there is no need to bash others.

[GadsdenGalt]

When you can't explain why people do something is usually because you are wrong; unless you are smarter than all those people.

I am new here and I like it so I have not, and will not author any sort of insult or personal attack. I am sure you are a swell fellow and now you own a proper weapon.

People on certain parts of the planet fancy a roll in the hay with goats. I do not understand this and I think I am correct not to. Perhaps intimate goat companionship is like keltec ownership, it does not seem so bad if you do not know the sheer joy of the alternatives.


Shooting a good firearm is right up there with riding a motorcycle and non goat intimate companionship.

[Willieboy]

Yikes Latin guy, tranquillo man. I wasn't bashing Kel-Tecs. I thought I said I liked my P11. However, if Teddy Jacobson, a famous pistolman, who has worked on thousands of pistols over many years, says he has concerns about Kel-Tecs build quality, I tend to listen. That said though, I still have my P11 and still carry it occassionally. I just steered away from the PF9 in favor of the PM9.

The PM9 has been no box of candy either. Kahr has their problems too, in trying to field a reliable handgun. If I have better feelings about Kahr guns than Kel-Tecs it's because I believe Kel-Tecs were dsigned from the get go, to be an inexpensive pistol using inexpensive materials and maybe inexpensive manufactuting methods. That's okay though because the buyer knows, or he should know, what he is buying and why it costs less than other guns of the same size and caliber.

I think Kahr, on the other hand, is trying to produce guns for people with two pesos to rub together. They are trying to produce guns to compete with companies like Glock and Sig.... at least I think that's what they're trying to do.

I'm new to Kahr guns and bought what I did because I liked the design. I'm not yet sure they are producing a top quality handgun, even though their prices are quite high. We all know they have problems with their magazines, have difficulty functioning with 9mm bullets heavier than 115 grains and, and this is a big concern for me, a quick perusal of the MK forums reveals numerous instances of cracked components. Cracked components suggests to me Kahr is casting major components and for what we pay for a Kahr firearm, I would have expected forgings. To my knowledge, only Ruger has mastered the investment casting process. I've had cast frames crack on me in the past and hope Kahr is doing a better job, though from what I've read, they are not. AND, why the heck does the six round magazine hang out the bottom of the frame on a gun designed for concealed, or even pocket carry? What's that about? Shorten the magazine or lengthen the frame Kahr. This isn't rocket science!

So, as I said in my firt post in this thread, I hope you enjoy both your guns and I hope they serve you well.

[Willieboy]

People on certain parts of the planet fancy a roll in the hay with goats. I do not understand this and I think I am correct not to. Perhaps intimate goat companionship is like keltec ownership, it does not seem so bad if you do not know the sheer joy of the alternatives.

Good stuff. Very cerebral!

[Bawanna]

I think we just need to remember that we're all sharing opinions. Beauty is to the eye of the beholder and all that stuff.

I knew a fellow that lived and breathed Makarov's. Carried one for protection, had several of them. Fluff and buff extrodinaire. He knew em inside and out. They were dirt cheap at the time and all over the place.
Not for me. I didn't even want one for a keep in the truck in case it gets stolen gun but they filled a niche.

Because I have little use for something doesn't mean it can't be somebody elses favorite. Guess we all have different experiences.

I frequently bash too quickly, I'm terribly not PC and sometimes my fingers and my mouth outrun my brain and restraint capabilities.

Thin skin has no place on the internet and I sometimes have thin skin too.

Don't get to worked up about opinions I guess.

[jocko]

when we can';t voice our opinions on this forum, IMO it is time to move on. Personally if you love kel teks then shoot um like you stole it. I can only relate my experience and they were all very very bad for over 4 years of ownership. Mine were junk, ain't no other way of saying it. Are they better today??? Probably so, for back then they could get no worse. Brag on them if you want or brag on your Makarov also. that is again your right and opinion, People basch Kahrs on other gun forums about like kel teks.

i have no doubt if you went from a kel tek to a kahr you have certainly upgraded yourself, now can your kahr be a problem child, we know it can.

I had one kel tek back younder that I put alot of money into what I called custom work becuase I just wanted to and at that time loved that little gun. Accurate Iron, ported it, did an action job (which u can't really do much to them at all, they are what they are in that category), They did a super refinish job, really looked nice and custom. Less than a month after I got all that work done the slide was so weak up fron that the recoil springs ate right through the slide and popped out the front of the slide. I lost a bundle of custom money with that episode. It just didn't bode well with me and I should have known better to put alot of mooney in a $250 gun. Lessons learned... Probably ought to have a special thread on ths fourm called the bashing thread, and that is where this kel tec and others and posters who want to basch it can post till hell freezes over. In defense of the kel tek somewhst, Ruger just copied their 380 and caught alot of hell over it to and they paid the price to as they had to recall 50,000 of them due to safety defects. I give credit to kahr on their P380, they only copied their own design the pM9. I had to send my Ruge lcp back once when I had it and their turn around was fantastic, less than 2 weeks from the time it left my home to returnng. It was never good with kel teck , at least 4 to 8 weeks to get a gun in and back. That was just the way it was back then, not sure how it is now, No one wants to buy an gun and have to send it back but certainly they also don't want to wait 2 months to get it back, There are some high dollar gun makers who are even slower.

I love my kahrs, at one time I loved my kel teks to. I am not married to any of them. If they don't perform as designed and the service doesn't make um work right, I will peddle my kahrs as fast as I did my kel teks. there are alot of good guns out on the market today to get upset over one or two bad events There are people who just hate the kahrs looooooong trigger system. It is harder to master, no doubt, IMO u ain't gonna shoot one hole groups either. We certainly have not seen that on this forum but maybe once or twice, so if a person buys a kahr and is not happy with the shooting experience, he should iMO sell it, trade it and find what he likes better Not rocket science. I own a Ruger lcp, it is a good gun but it was just like my kel tek to, I could not hit jack **** with it, now my P380 when I got it, i really expected no better from it based on my past experience with two other brands of 380's, but this P380 will shoot circles around my previous 380's. Amazingly accurate. I give some credit to having actual sights on the gun to but thre trigger system as looooong and smooth as it was , just was a better gun all around. BUT it had to go back once to kahr also.

[deadhead1971]

I have been enjoying this one with detached amusement. I don't have a kel-tec. Wait. I have a ruger LCP, and it looks [almost] like a kel tec.

To the Latingunnut - You can, but I don't hand rack my slide to chamber the first round. I use the procedure in the owner's manual--works every time. I keep it loaded so I don't have to worry about chambering a round in an emergency situation. Therefore, the PM9 can be tight. If you try to hand rack the slide to chamber the first round, the top round may nose dive on the feed ramp. Just use the method in the manual.

I have an "old" PM9 from 2009, and the mags drop free. Some have reported the mags not dropping in the newer models..not sure why.

[recoilguy]

To defend the qualities of the PM9 there is no need to bash others.

Relaying personal experiance is not bashing, it may feel like bashing to someone who is.....trying to feel good about their purchase or other reasons I am sure , but it is not.

I liken it to hold a cheese grater with a fire ******* under it and it would feel like a I was shooting a Kel Tec.

Cg

[recoilguy]

Really......... Crac ker is auto editted?

CG

[jocko]

don't

Really......... Crac ker is auto editted?

CG

u know this is also a religious forum to, what the fokk is the matter with you???? U can' tprint words like that

[Willieboy]

God is watching you Jocko.

[bonjorno2]

I guess people have had different experiences with Kel-Tecs. I've owned a P11 for years and it's been a nice little pistol. It's been reliable and accurate with good firepower for a pistol its size. I have had Teddy Jacobson, owner of Actions by T, do action/trigger jobs on a couple of my guns, one revolver and one pistol. I thought enough of the P11 to ask Teddy to look over the P11 and perform his magic on the gun. Teddy would not even consider working on a Kel-Tec, so low was his opinion of Kel-Tecs. They were not worth his time.

When It came time to invest in a single stack nine, I thought about the PF9, but Teddy's words kept ringing in my ears. So, I ponied up the cash for the PM9 and with Jocko's help and several hundred rounds of ammo, I believe I have a reliable pistol.

As an aside, and for what it's worth, Teddy also warned me off Smith and Wesson guns. He does a great deal of work on guns for local police officers and he does not like what he sees when he opens up a S&W.

i never have had a issue with my pf9 or p3at or p32 after the factory break in or a trip down the road to where they are built.... If you don't have the time or patience to get your carry gun in top shape before you carry i suggest buying a revolver or a glock.

[jocko]

if a glock fit in my front pocket like my PM9 does, I would carry a glock, unfortunatley they are what they are, even their so called sub compacts are big guns by kahr standards and other makers to.

can't say to much bad about glock, we sold um for years, MineG19 shoots almost in the same hole. That being said, glock over the years has made more internal design changes than any gun on the market. so lets not kid ourselves, they give issues and they in the past gave some issues ..

[Chuck54]

I like my PM9 a LOT