Accidental discharges

[wyntrout]

"Take a look at the police chief. Not an AD, but thats about how I felt experiencing, first hand, a few of them. He's about to crap his pants, and thats exactly how I felt too."

I think he's thinking "I'm NEXT!! " And that other thing, too, for sure.

Wynn

[CJB]

When you're doing duty at the range, and there happens to be (against my wishes) a logo with a huge stenciled TARGET on your back.... and you got one going off feet away, especially when you're helping another customer, let me assure you the "WADDAFUGIMNEXT!!!!" routine did come to the surface in the murky pool of thoughts that normally cloud my waking hours. Yah-man and then some. Then you realize its an AD, or ND or whatever...

You're there, you see it, you hear it, you're effected by it, you have to work it out with some talk and maybe a few drinks with your range associates. The two places were both indoor ranges, small places, regularly uneventful places. Have I become jaded in the process of gaining this unwanted experience? Yes. By the end of my stint, when an AD occurred I'd grab a garbage bag. Why? Put the effected limb, if any, in it. Less blood to clean up. When you've taken two pieces of cardboard, and brought them together like a scoop to lift the jelled blood off the tiles on the floor, you start thinking practically.

[bonjorno2]

no such things as accidental

[CJB]

In all the cases I've cited, you're right. I'm used to calling them that - since in the day, we didn't use the term "negligent discharge".

There have been accidental ones - Smith and Wesson had some 9mm 39's and 59's that had a habit of having the firing pin get stuck forward, firing on slide closure. Those were AD's. The fire on closure Glocks. I've seen two Browning HP's that would fire when the safety was released - if the pistol had been stored a while that way, and subject to a bit of jostling. Come to think of it - you never heard of that being recalled by Browning. That sort of thing is accidental, but definitely my bad for using the term incorrectly.

[wyntrout]

I've had ONE discharge like that... a Remington Nylon 66... as I released the bolt to load the danged thing. Thankfully, I decided to point it just outside the boat... into the water!! My father-in-law and I were fishing, well, shooting snakes at the time, and they could have been wanting a chance at me in the water!
You just can't be TOO SAFE!
I still don't need safeties on my CCW and defense weapons... NO KIDS in the house and my wife is familiar with guns... retired USAF MSGT. She had to stay qualified with the .38 special S&W model 15, I think, and the Remington 870 12-ga. in Europe. Me, too, and I retired before ever carrying the M9, flying, or otherwise.

Just got a call from wifey. She's stuck in Dallas for the night... should have been landing here in 20 minutes. She's been gone since very early last Tuesday and we were looking forward to being back together tonight!

I can finish cleaning my PM45 now and forget about some of the other stuff I needed to do. I won't have time to do that in the morning, either... just want to get my PM45 cleaned and back into its "ready position" with 7+1 at hand and a 7-round reload at my computer station.

Wynn

[ltxi]

I don't think its a bad thing either - for the right reasons. It was just a revelation to me that someone might actually do that, and then... it sort of brought 2+2 a little closer together towards 4 in my mind, regarding some AD's.

I guess/hope you appreciate my point. Glocks form a minor component of handguns I own for defense. I choose to treat them the way I do, 1911 like, specifically to prevent both AD and other than Glock not working under stress. Got nothing to do with "after" and thumbing down the hammer.

In agreement with Bawanna's comment, I think, I would never even consider owing a defense handgun that required up for fire and down for decocker/safe. It doesn't fit my half century of training/experience/wiring and could get me killed.

[bonjorno2]

In all the cases I've cited, you're right. I'm used to calling them that - since in the day, we didn't use the term "negligent discharge".

There have been accidental ones - Smith and Wesson had some 9mm 39's and 59's that had a habit of having the firing pin get stuck forward, firing on slide closure. Those were AD's. The fire on closure Glocks. I've seen two Browning HP's that would fire when the safety was released - if the pistol had been stored a while that way, and subject to a bit of jostling. Come to think of it - you never heard of that being recalled by Browning. That sort of thing is accidental, but definitely my bad for using the term incorrectly.

it's all good, when it is a malfunction with the weapon and not the operator error/negligent then I agree...

[dannyeller]

Really like the Glocks

I have three Glocks. A 17, 22 and 23. I have competed with the 17 and 22. I have some modifications on them. I carried the 23. I like the simple pull and shoot. Take your finger off the trigger and it is safe. I've seen people I respect that are class "A" shooters pull their 45 and try to fire without taking it off safe. It goes to show that the best can still make a mistake. Even though they acted like their dog died,thank goodness those mistakes happened in a match and not during something more serious.

As much as I like them I do not recommend Glocks to new shooters. I try and steer them into a revolver until they become more comfortable and confident in handling a firearm. As stated a good holster is a must for a Glock. If big Government ever came to my house and said give all of them up but one, after the shootout and I survived the Glock 23 would be the one I keep even though as some of you have seen my custom T9 and MK40 the Glock 23 is not anywhere close to the firearm I have the most money in.

[paul34]

Not an accidental discharge - rather, it is a negligent discharge

Accidental would be the gun going off by itself while sitting on a table with no one near it, or falling and discharging upon hitting the floor. There are a few other genuine "AD" scenarios mentioned in this thread.

Negligence is letting one's finger hit the trigger, which is the case in pretty much every so called "accidental" discharge story you hear. Or, uncareful holstering. Or, as mentioned, careless individuals who carry without holsters. Always use a quality holster. Not doing so is being reckless, careless, and selfish - when one permit holder has an incident of negligence, it reflects very poorly on ALL permit holders. Uncle Mike's holsters may not be top notch, but they do well enough if you really cannot afford a nicer holster - so no "I can't afford it" excuses.

Oftentimes, when you hear of a gun "going off" when it hits the ground, the cause isn't so much the impact as the owner going for the "fumble" and trying to catch the thing before it hits the floor. BIG MISTAKE.

NEVER try to catch a falling gun! Let it hit the ground! You'll almost certainly unintentionally squeeze the trigger in the process of catching it! Most modern guns are drop safe. You'll get a few scratches and your ego will be bruised, but other than that, you'll be fine. Let it hit the ground.

Other than that, follow the four rules. They will keep you safe!

[wyntrout]

Accidental means unintended. This is anytime the trigger was not purposefully pulled... intentional. Negligent is a subset of accidental discharges, as is material failure or design failures, whether one time, random, or repeating. Gremlins don't cause one-time failures, but it sure can seem that way.
That time I was chambering a round in my Nylon 66, I pointed the barrel out of the boat as kind of an afterthought... a fortunate one, it turned out. I always point the barrel in the safest direction for chambering a round... you just never know, but it only takes once for bad consequences to happen. "Murphy" is alive and ready to "help" you all of the time.

Wynn

[earle8888]

I had not heard the term Neg. discharge used before this thread, BUT, I think it is much more appropriate than accidental.

[Bawanna]

I had not heard the term Neg. discharge used before this thread, BUT, I think it is much more appropriate than accidental.

I absolutely agree.

[rwblue01]

Not an accidental discharge - rather, it is a negligent discharge

Accidental would be the gun going off by itself while sitting on a table with no one near it, or falling and discharging upon hitting the floor. There are a few other genuine "AD" scenarios mentioned in this thread.

Negligence is letting one's finger hit the trigger, which is the case in pretty much every so called "accidental" discharge story you hear. Or, uncareful holstering. Or, as mentioned, careless individuals who carry without holsters. Always use a quality holster. Not doing so is being reckless, careless, and selfish - when one permit holder has an incident of negligence, it reflects very poorly on ALL permit holders. Uncle Mike's holsters may not be top notch, but they do well enough if you really cannot afford a nicer holster - so no "I can't afford it" excuses.

So I assume you have never been in a car accident?
When you were driving too fast, slow, wrong....?
When your brain just didn't understand that the light had turned red or yellow?
When you didn't see the stop sign that everyone else sees every day?

If you haven't, you haven't been around cars very long.


The same is true of guns. If you are around guns long enough and push to the limits some times, you will have an AD. If you are lucky, it will just make you realize how close you came to really screwing up. If you are unlucky it will cost someone their life.

So far, I have been very lucky.

[ltxi]

I almost hate to say this because it sounds too good to be true, but.....

I've been been handling and shooting firearms, handguns and long guns, since I was 12 years old, for 56 years now. For most of my adult life it's been on a routine basis....for professional reasons, for target practice/sport, for personal defense. I currently own roughly 45 guns in various shapes, sizes, calibers, purpose, and actions. Maybe a half dozen of these I shoot regularly for proficiency reasons and I pretty much always go armed.

I have never suffered an AD/ND/whatever you choose to call it in my entire life. Perhaps just lucky, I prefer to believe sound practice and good.

Of course this most likely means I'll be back here tomorrow confessing I just blew a hole in my foot.

[Bawanna]

I almost hate to say this because it sounds too good to be true, but.....

I've been been handling and shooting firearms, handguns and long guns, since I was 12 years old, for 56 years now. For most of my adult life it's been on a routine basis....for professional reasons, for target practice/sport, for personal defense. I currently own roughly 45 guns in various shapes, sizes, calibers, purpose, and actions. Maybe a half dozen of these I shoot regularly for proficiency reasons and I pretty much always go armed.

I have never suffered an AD/ND/whatever you choose to call it in my entire life. Perhaps just lucky, I prefer to believe sound practice and good.

Of course this most likely means I'll be back here tomorrow confessing I just blew a hole in my foot.

Lets certainly hope not! That would hurt like the dickens and no doubt leave a mark.
I think the more we handle guns the more chances we have of making a goof. I think luck has a lot to do with it.
Sound practice and good safe habits certainly go a long ways towards preventing it.
Also safe good habits make a AD/ND whatever usually have a better outcome. Maybe an embarassing moment versus a tragedy.