Baltimore has gone Ferguson

[b4uqzme]

^^^ no excuses. Those policemen should face charges for what they might have done. But what about those shopkeepers in Baltimore? What did they do to have their stores destroyed and looted?

[muggsy]

Word is that the coroners office said that it appeared that the victims injuries may have been self inflicted. He had 18 previous arrests including one for manufacturing and selling illegal drugs. The cops may be guilty of nothing more than doing their jobs.

[187911]

Word is that the coroners office said that it appeared that the victims injuries may have been self inflicted. He had 18 previous arrests including one for manufacturing and selling illegal drugs. The cops may be guilty of nothing more than doing their jobs.

You want to believe that because you want to support the cops vs supporting the other guy. I'm not buying that the guy purposely broke his own back. Reminds me of the "Victor White III" case where Mr White was searched and handcuffed with his hands behind his back and placed in a police cruiser. The officers claimed that he shot himself in the chest with a gun that miraculously appeared out of nowhere, and the corner went along with this by ruling the death a suicide.

Next, so what he sold drugs. What's that have to do with what happened to him? To me selling drugs to consenting adults, selling sex between consenting adults, consenting adult wanting to have more than one spouse, etc are victimless crimes. You may not morally like it, but so what it's not your life or your health... Doesn't mean that these people deserve what they got IF they were in fact mistreated by LE...

[JohnR]

If it's a victimless crime, why do they keep killing each other? Street dealers kill way more people than cops do. You may not like it, but to sell drugs in this country you need a pharmacist license. And even then there are some drugs you can't sell.

Why don't licensed pharmacists get into turf wars and kill each other, or shoot their customers when their debit cards don't work or their insurance has expired?

[187911]

If it's a victimless crime, why do they keep killing each other? Street dealers kill way more people than cops do. You may not like it, but to sell drugs in this country you need a pharmacist license. And even then there are some drugs you can't sell.

Why don't licensed pharmacists get into turf wars and kill each other, or shoot their customers when their debit cards don't work or their insurance has expired?

Those are two completely separate acts that lol. The same things happened when alcohol was illegal, and selling drugs and killing are two different crimes. Prohibition breeds crime, not selling marijuana are whatever the man was selling. One act violates someone's rights, and the other is a transaction between consenting adults. How can you as what I'm assuming is a pro 2nd Amendment Conservative who is for small government and personal freedom support making a personal choice that hurts no one illegal for everyone based on the possibility of complete separate act that harms others... I mean using your logic, constitutional carry should remain illegal in most states because you don't see conceal carry permit holders killing each other correct? Alcohol consumption should be illegal because, after the fact, drinkers could commit a completely separate crime of DUI, AND because you don't see many sober people killing people while under the influence...

In any event, the fact that this guy sold drugs does not mean it's okay to violate his rights or that, while a free man, he should have been treated any differently than you or I while in custody. Not saying that these officers are guilty or not, but if they are and we support them and look the other way just because they're doing it to "those people", it's just a matter of time before it comes around to us.

[muggsy]

Not to defend the poorly worded statement by the mayor, but in fairness what I think that she meant to say was that by giving people space to peacefully protest that they inadvertently gave space to the thugs who wanted to riot. It's obvious that by telling the police to stand down that she is in way over her head. I have no problem with people peacefully assembling to protest, but I think that these people should wait until all of the facts in the case are in. I doubt that anyone will ever be able to determine if the officers used excessive force or if the injuries were self inflicted, but one thing is for sure. The man would be alive today if he hadn't run and resisted arrest. He had been arrested 18 times previously and at least once for the manufacture and sale of illegal drugs. It doesn't make sense to riot and burn down a city over the death of a drug dealer. How many lives did he destroy in his community?

[187911]

Not to defend the poorly worded statement by the mayor, but in fairness what I think that she meant to say was that by giving people space to peacefully protest that they inadvertently gave space to the thugs who wanted to riot. It's obvious that by telling the police to stand down that she is in way over her head. I have no problem with people peacefully assembling to protest, but I think that these people should wait until all of the facts in the case are in. I doubt that anyone will ever be able to determine if the officers used excessive force or if the injuries were self inflicted, but one thing is for sure. The man would be alive today if he hadn't run and resisted arrest. He had been arrested 18 times previously and at least once for the manufacture and sale of illegal drugs. It doesn't make sense to riot and burn down a city over the death of a drug dealer. How many lives did he destroy in his community?

If people choose to do drugs, they destroyed their own lives.

[diablo53]

If people choose to do drugs, they destroyed their own lives.

AND... When the addiction takes over and the money to feed the addiction runs out, other NON-VICTIMLESS crimes occur. See how there is a snowball effect here? If this kind of activity were truly victimless, and not the root to non-victimless crimes, there would only be "counseling" and not incarceration.
I'm not expecting you to change your mind. I only want to make sure you aren't keeping your head in the sand about the bigger picture.

[b4uqzme]

AND... When the addiction takes over and the money to feed the addiction runs out, other NON-VICTIMLESS crimes occur. See how there is a snowball effect here? If this kind of activity were truly victimless, and not the root to non-victimless crimes, there would only be "counseling" and not incarceration.
I'm not expecting you to change your mind. I only want to make sure you aren't keeping your head in the sand about the bigger picture.

Yes, I do think muggsy was talking about a lot more than just people who choose to ruin their own lives by buying drugs from Freddie Gray...

[getsome]

State Attorney has ruled the death of Freddie Gray a homicide and the 6 officers will be charged........What a mess

[b4uqzme]

^^^^ And they will have their opportunity to clear themselves in court. Without the reckless intervention of the rioters, the media, and our POTUS, this wouldn't even be news.

[187911]

AND... When the addiction takes over and the money to feed the addiction runs out, other NON-VICTIMLESS crimes occur. See how there is a snowball effect here? If this kind of activity were truly victimless, and not the root to non-victimless crimes, there would only be "counseling" and not incarceration.
I'm not expecting you to change your mind. I only want to make sure you aren't keeping your head in the sand about the bigger picture.

Then punish the crime and only the crime that violates someone else's rights. I can use and you are using the same snowball effect rational that the antis use for wanting their gun control. You want to ban a personal freedom from everyone, what you choose to put into your own body, based on a crime that some "might" do in the future... Alcohol is a drug. People are alcoholics. Alcohol has ruined and taken thousands of lives. You would think that drinking alcohol is a victimless, but it leads to other non-victimless crimes. See how there is a snowball effect here? There's health issues, women passing out and being raped, assaults/fights, child abuse, car accidents, vehicular homicides, etc. I'm not expecting you to change your mind about a drug called alcohol; however, I only want to make sure you aren't keeping your head in the sand about the bigger picture.

We seen what happened before and after prohibition. By the way, in the Netherlands, they do not treat drug use/dependence as a crime. They do not incarcerate people for 10, 20, 30 years for being a drug addict. Instead they offer "counseling" if caught. How how drug use has gone down, and the crime rate has not spiraled out of control.

Lasting, as a gun owner, I hope you don't have your head in the sand about the problems with firearms in the U.S... All the snowballing effects, crimes, murders, etc that occurs with guns. Do you want to ban guns in America too because of the "snowball effect" that occurs with having the right to bear arms?

[b4uqzme]

^^^ you have a great point there but you are way off topic and not at all what muggsy was talking about. Subject for a new thread?

[SlowBurn]

^^^^ And they will have their opportunity to clear themselves in court. Without the reckless intervention of the rioters, the media, and our POTUS, this wouldn't even be news.

I'm sure it was a fair and impartial prosecutorial decision, with no racial or political motive, just like the prosecutions of the Duke lacrosse team or George Zimmerman.

"Mosby swiftly rejected a request from the Baltimore police officers union asking her to appoint a special independent prosecutor because of her ties to attorney Billy Murphy, who is representing Gray's family. Murphy was among Mosby's biggest campaign contributors last year, donating the maximum individual amount allowed, $4,000, in June. Murphy also served on Mosby's transition team after the election."

[b4uqzme]

I'm sure it was a fair and impartial prosecutorial decision, with no racial or political motive, just like the prosecutions of the Duke lacrosse team or George Zimmerman...

Agreed. But the man is dead and some due diligence is reasonable.