Kahr CW.380 XTP or Hydrashock?

[Wlfman13]

Thanks, SlowBurn!

ARX seems to run really well in my P380, and I hope it does the same in my CT380, now that it is broken in. Now, I will have the rounds needed to definitely make sure!

-Wlf

[boscobarbell]

David - Ruger ARX ammo is (was?) made for Ruger by Polycase, and was simply a rebranded version of their Inceptor ARX round. Other than the name on the box the two are identical from what I can tell.

Cynthia - I'm not a big fan of ARX (yet), but I've been impressed with my limited, unscientific backyard results. The increased velocity results mainly from the lighter weight bullet. Based on the tests and reviews I've seen online, over-penetration is certainly not an issue. I don't know about the original Polycase Inceptor, but one cool thing about the Ruger version is there's 25 rounds per box, as opposed to the usual 20.

My concern is what the ARX will do when it encounters bone. I assume a round fired in self-defense will have to get through a bone (sternum, rib, cranium, etc) to get to the organs we need to reach for incapacitation, so it is a genuine concern for any SD ammo. I've seen no definitive response to this question.....

[markman]

FAQ/Incepter Ammunition

https://www.inceptorammo.com/faq/

Is this a frangible round?

Our ARX and RNP™are frangible on hardened steel and fragmenting against dense bone (akin to a jacket being ripped off of a hollow-point that encounters a femur) and certain intermediate barriers. Frangibles are bullets that break up into pieces, none of which total more than 5% of the total weight of the original bullet, upon impact with hardened steel.
What does this mean beyond the controlled environment of ballistics gel and labs? Our bullets achieve solid performance at close distances through certain intermediate barriers like drywall or denim. They also penetrate but fragment through major barriers such as glass or some types of steel, but they are unlikely to over-penetrate through multiple such barriers. Simply put: It’s less likely to go through your walls and into your neighbor’s house.

[Cynthia S]

I've been looking at a lot of testing of the ARX, but in mixed calibers. There seems to be a common thread tho. The harder the material shot thru, the more pieces are generated. There were some tests thru wood and sheet metal where there were only 3-4 pieces generated, and the path was not severely modified, as the pieces were all found in the water jugs at the back side of the gel used.

I think I am OK with this (3 or 4 pieces ), as I doubt I am going to be that accurate a shot in the first place, so some deviation may, if luck is on my side, work well.

But, most sales sites are out of stock. Does this bode poorly for the company's future?

There was a video on using the bullets for reloading, and there was a certain amount of failures depending on rate of burn and propellant load. Slower burn and high load were better. So I'm wondering if the Ventura bulk carton might not be the same propellant and load. Any body test those shells in a CT380 yet?

Cynthia

[gale155]

My concern is what the ARX will do when it encounters bone. I assume a round fired in self-defense will have to get through a bone (sternum, rib, cranium, etc) to get to the organs we need to reach for incapacitation, so it is a genuine concern for any SD ammo. I've seen no definitive response to this question.....

You might find this interesting, sir:

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...case-inceptor/

As you know from the Seecamp forum, I only shoot 'em...I don't know what make 'em work. Having said that, I would not want to be shot with a round that will penetrate deeply, and break into 3 or 4 pieces after striking dense bone. Of course I wouldn't want to be shot with even a BB gun, so take that for what it's worth. If I were concerned about shooting through barriers, such as glass, drywall or car doors, the ARX would be my last choice. However, like you that's no longer a concern for me.

[gale155]

I've been looking at a lot of testing of the ARX, but in mixed calibers. There seems to be a common thread tho. The harder the material shot thru, the more pieces are generated. There were some tests thru wood and sheet metal where there were only 3-4 pieces generated, and the path was not severely modified, as the pieces were all found in the water jugs at the back side of the gel used.

I think I am OK with this (3 or 4 pieces ), as I doubt I am going to be that accurate a shot in the first place, so some deviation may, if luck is on my side, work well.

But, most sales sites are out of stock. Does this bode poorly for the company's future?

There was a video on using the bullets for reloading, and there was a certain amount of failures depending on rate of burn and propellant load. Slower burn and high load were better. So I'm wondering if the Ventura bulk carton might not be the same propellant and load. Any body test those shells in a CT380 yet?

Cynthia

I like to buy ammo at brick-and-mortar LGS. Although I may now have to boycott them for the recent firing of a manager who physically subdued a gun thief, I've been buying ammo at my local Academy Outdoor and Sports. Last time I was there, which was just a few weeks ago, they had lots of Ruger ARX in .380 on the shelves...$19.99 per box of 25 as I recall.

[DavidR]

Midway has the Inceptor branded ARX.

While I ran a box of 25 successfully through my CT380 I’m still carrying Lehigh Xtreme Defense. Something about that solid copper phillips head that I like but I would be fine carrying the ARX.

[boscobarbell]

I've been looking at a lot of testing of the ARX, but in mixed calibers. There seems to be a common thread tho. The harder the material shot thru, the more pieces are generated. There were some tests thru wood and sheet metal where there were only 3-4 pieces generated, and the path was not severely modified, as the pieces were all found in the water jugs at the back side of the gel used.

I think I am OK with this (3 or 4 pieces ), as I doubt I am going to be that accurate a shot in the first place, so some deviation may, if luck is on my side, work well.

Cynthia

That's interesting...do you have a link to those tests? Any idea on the total distance of penetration for the fragments?

[boscobarbell]

You might find this interesting, sir:

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...case-inceptor/

As you know from the Seecamp forum, I only shoot 'em...I don't know what make 'em work. Having said that, I would not want to be shot with a round that will penetrate deeply, and break into 3 or 4 pieces after striking dense bone. Of course I wouldn't want to be shot with even a BB gun, so take that for what it's worth. If I were concerned about shooting through barriers, such as glass, drywall or car doors, the ARX would be my last choice. However, like you that's no longer a concern for me.

Thanks...very interesting.

My concern isn't barriers, as you correctly guessed...I'm leaving that kind of stuff to the young guys now!

But I AM a bit worried about the ARX hitting a sternum and then breaking into a few pieces that don't significantly penetrate.

I'm certainly ready to be impressed, because these rounds seem to be just perfect for our micro-guns. But, unless I hear differently, I'm a bit more comforted by the solid metal of the Lehigh/Underwood fluted rounds.

But I remain hopeful....

[gale155]

Thanks...very interesting.

My concern isn't barriers, as you correctly guessed...I'm leaving that kind of stuff to the young guys now!

But I AM a bit worried about the ARX hitting a sternum and then breaking into a few pieces that don't significantly penetrate.

I'm certainly ready to be impressed, because these rounds seem to be just perfect for our micro-guns. But, unless I hear differently, I'm a bit more comforted by the solid metal of the Lehigh/Underwood fluted rounds.

But I remain hopeful....

Here's a review that's a little more entertaining than the average ballistics test, and it involves bone. In fact, it looks like some silly thing I would do in the back yard, but it's well done:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftyah3lHqzw&t=193s

I'm still not totally sold on ARX for carry, but I want to be since it's readily available and fairly inexpensive. I wish you could see what it does to my water-filled targets...when I say it blows them up, I'm not exaggerating.

I'm not certain about this, but several years ago I seem to recall some people reporting chunks of the ARX bullet breaking off while feeding, and obviously causing malfunctions as a result. This might have been occurring in just one particular type of pistol...I can't remember the specifics, and can't seem to find anything on it as of late. If I'm remembering correctly, that would be a big concern; however, I've not had a problem or malfunction with it in my RM380 or CW380.

[Cynthia S]

Bosco, you asked about the video, so here it is, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TlBSiIeTCI . Unfortunately it is woefully short of narration. There was originally some indication of using 9mm and .45. But He didn't indicate which was being used, or what exactly was the barrier being used. So, can't make too much of it.

Cynthia

[markman]

While it is the 9mm ARX, this shows it shot thru 4 layers of t-shirt, leather skin, pork chop pecs, ribs, simulated lung tissue, ribs again, then 4 layers of t-shirt again. This test actually shows it over penetrating. How scientific or accurate it is, I really don't know, but it sure is interesting. That part starts about 14:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_CCeb-AbDQ

[DavidR]

I like Paul’s pork chop rib test. Seems more “real world” than gel. I hope he does one with 380.

[Cynthia S]

Very interesting. I like the meat and oranges testing.

I note that you can hear a lot of wind on the microphone. Also, in the last close up of the target, it could be seen fluttering a bit forward and backward. Wondering if the lighter round is more affected by wind.

Cynthia

[gale155]

That's the first video I've seen by this guy (Paul), and he really seems to know his stuff...excellent video. The one thing I would disagree with him on is fiddling around with the sights. In a typical self-defense situation, the shooter is absolutely not going to be using sights, IMHO.