Has anybody tried Mag Safe Ammo?

[JFootin]

I have been looking at the Mag Safe Ammo and am impressed by the claims of their 380 ammo putting test animals down faster than any other self defense ammo in the test, including 9mm, 40s&w, 45scp and 357 magnum hollow point rounds. It also won't ricochet, or go through walls and kill neighbors, and it has the lowest recoil by far. (Details here. Look at the dispersal patterns in the picture at the top of the page.)

I know, it is very expensive. But once I shot enough of them at the range to ensure reliability, the expense would cease.

So, who has experience with these rounds? Especially with the PM9/ CM9 pistols? Will they load and cycle OK? (They say they will. And they have a 9mm round called the "Baby Glock" that is especially for short barreled semi-autos.)





Any sage and experienced advice will be greatly appreciated.

[jocko]

a way way over rated very very expoensi8ve round that I never read of ANYONE bragging about the round. If u notice theys eemtooperate on the principal of a very very light weight bullet to achieve some of their add hype.

I don';t see the gun rags promoting it, and any of the so called good gun testers out there either.

[Barth]

Run away

Frangible bullets have been around for a long time now.
Seems like when everything goes perfect they can have impressive performance.
But everything isn't always perfect.
Also I've heard the accuracy of the super light rounds can be poor.
Best to take law enforcement's lead when choosing self defense ammo.
(I think even Air Marshals use P229/357 125 grain HPs)

[JFootin]

Jocko, it doesn't seem like you have actually tried them. I know there is not a lot of talk about them, mostly because they are so expensive, and also because they are so different that hardly anyone has tried them.

Barth, these are not like the little shot filled rounds. The pieces are locked together in epoxy resin and the hollow point is jacketed so it gets good penetration. If you look at the gel tubes in that photo, the penetration is over 12" on all but one of them, and the damage is dramatic.

Again, I want to hear from people who have some EXPERIENCE with the ammo.

[Vanzpp]

Over the years I've fired nearly 100 rounds (Defender and Mini-Glock loads) through my CW9 and about 50-60 through my SW 642. I've never had a problem with it. I say over the years because the stuff is too expensive to shell out $250 to test 100 rounds all at one trip to the range.

I carry Magsafe in the summer months. I think there is something to be said for neural shock and light/fast frangible ammo. However, you're going to get a LOT of different opinions on this issue!!

[Suthrncop66]

I have been wondering the same thing too, I havent been able to find anyone with first hand experience either...

[JFootin]

Thanks Vanzpp. That's the actual experience I was looking for. So, let me pick your brain some more:

• How much less recoil is there? Compared to the typical high power or +p HP rounds favored by so many?
• Any perceived differences or preferences in the rounds?

Thanks for the valuable info!

Anyone else with actual experience using the ammo?

[Vanzpp]

Thanks Vanzpp. That's the actual experience I was looking for. So, let me pick your brain some more:

• How much less recoil is there? Compared to the typical high power or +p HP rounds favored by so many?
• Any perceived differences or preferences in the rounds?

Thanks for the valuable info!

Anyone else with actual experience using the ammo?

You're welcome.

Like I said, I've never had any problems with Magsafe in my CW9 except for the last batch I tried (FTF). However, that wasn't the ammo's fault. It was the gun's, and I had to send the gun back to its home planet of Worcester to have it fixed.

For me, recoil is slightly less with Magsafe than with traditional HP designs, but that's largely a matter of personal perception. Personally I like the Defender load, because it gives +P performance from a standard pressure round. The Mini-Glock load shoots fine too, but I'm suspicious of that round because I think it's a tad too light--only 50 grains. That's just my opinion, though.

I've only fired 8 rounds of the +P Stealth load through my CW9. They shoot fine, but I don't want a polymer handgun to take a prolonged beating with that stuff. As I'm sure you saw from the website, they're loaded pretty hot.

Hope that helps. For what it's worth, I carry Magsafe regularly during the summer months when people tend to wear light clothing.

[JFootin]

Thanks a lot!

[Vanzpp]

I have been wondering the same thing too, I havent been able to find anyone with first hand experience either...

Marshall and Sanow speak highly of Magsafe's effectiveness in their books "Street Stoppers" and "Handgun Stopping Power". Ayoob speaks highly of Glaser Safety Slugs (different round, same basic concept) in "The Ayoob Files." Jim Cirillo was an advocate of RBCD ammo, a light, fast frangible-type round.

All the above writers are/were cops with actual street experience. Most people who trash Magsafes are the many online keyboard warriors on the net who have never heard a shot fired in anger in their lives. (Except for Martin Fackler, who hates frangibles based on his experience as a combat doc in Vietnam).

I'm going to trust the guys with the street experience.

[JFootin]

Thanks a lot, Vanzpp. Now, this thread is becoming an important addition to the knowledge base available in the Ammunition section!

I had seen this ammo carried by leading online ammo sellers, so I figured it must have some legitimacy. Then, I went to their website and read what they say about the ammo, and it made sense to my engineer's mind. As I get my CM9 broken in, I am going to try some of this ammo: see how it functions in the gun, and how accurate it is compared to conventional rounds. I have an idea that, within the 7 yard defensive range, it will be effective.

[frank_drebin]

a way way over rated very very expoensi8ve round that I never read of ANYONE bragging about the round. If u notice theys eemtooperate on the principal of a very very light weight bullet to achieve some of their add hype.

I don';t see the gun rags promoting it, and any of the so called good gun testers out there either.

I got caught eemtooperateing once. Very embarrassing for both of us.

[JFootin]

All the info...

I went back and read the Performance Info page again, and decided to just copy it here:



MAGNUM PERFORMANCE WITH SAFETY...
That's the concept which led to MagSafe Ammo, the world's most effective handgun ammo. There isn't another bullet anywhere with the take-charge performance offered by MagSafe Ammo.

DESIGNED FOR PERFECT PENETRATION DEPTH
MagSafe's revolutionary design uses large lead shotgun pellets rather than solid lead for a bullet's core. The earliest versions (1986-1987) used small pellets, like the #6 shot a competitor uses for their "Silver" line of frangible ammo.

Early in the design process, hundreds of videotaped test shots were made into ordnance gelatin. Then, viewed in slow motion, you could see how a core's pellet size and pattern created the greatest wound damage for any given caliber.

It was quickly learned that using much larger #2 or #3 shot gave perfect penetration depth in gelatin or flesh-form 10 to 13 inches (two to three times as much penetration as our competitors). A large man's chest is only 12 inches thick from front to back, and any more penetration than that was wasted energy which would endanger innocent people.

That was the first goal reached - ammunition which won't overpenetrate a torso and hurt or kill innocent bystanders.

REDUCED RICOCHET HAZARD
One side benefit of using huge shot pellets is the reduction of ricochets, because larger objects are affected more by rotational forces. Tests showed that MagSafe Ammo won't even glance off slimy, wet boards at the most shallow of angles. They also don't ricochet off windshields, car doors or interior house walls. And, most importantly, they won't glance off bone.

ANOTHER GOAL WAS REACHED. "CONTROLLED-CORE TECHNOLOGY"
For almost a year, experimentation with shot placement within the bullet's jacket continued, looking for a fan-shaped pellet wound channel. It was felt that the wider the pattern the better the chance of hitting vital organs, even with a poolry-placed shot.

By arranging pellets in specific patterns, literally stacking them in place one at a time, by hand, bullets could be designed to work nearly any way wanted - maybe deeper penetration, or wider wound channel, some even to break apart in sheetrock walls.

To stabilize the pellet patterns until the instant of impact, dozens of types of epoxy resins were tested. A custom blend with perfect properties was found - it is easily broken apart at impact, yet tough enough to launch at twice the velocity of normal bullets.

No other ammo uses high-tech resins or pellets put onto specific patterns by hand.

WORLD'S FASTEST AMMO - YET LOWEST RECOIL!
The final goal - to have the world's fastest ammo, yet with much less recoil than standard (slower) ammunition - was really tough.

However, hot loads are now offered like the .45 ACP SUPER SWAT load, which clocks 2,160 + feet per second (fps) in a five-inch auto - yet has about one-third the recoil.

The 9mm Mini-Glock Load cruises along at about 2,000 fps from Glock's teensy Model 26, yet has far more stopping ability than the nastiest .357 magnum or 10mm hollowpoint in the world. Yet the recoil is about like shooting low-powered target loads!

LOTS OF FOLKS SAID "IT WON'T WORK"
For example, half a dozen gun "experts" stated a 66-grain bullet would not function a .45 ACP weapon. So, MagSafe was tested in full-auto Tommy Guns, which don't function very well at all with light ammo. It was also tried in a 645 Smith with 28-lb. recoil springs - just to make sure.

Then the folks at Magnum Research said a slug as light as 250 grains would not function their massive Desert Eagle in .50 Action Express Caliber. MagSafe's 180-grainer functioned perfectly under all conditions.

MAGSAFE SWEPT THE STRASBOURG TESTS
The now -famous Strasbourg Tests put MagSafe on the map. To Summarize what nearly everyone already knows, over 600 live French Alpine goats (their bodies are very much like humans) were shot under controlled conditions: no anesthetic, same shot placement form animal to animal, and with blood pressure and heart rate monitors to determine the Incapacitation Time (measure of how long it took a goat to cease functioning after the single shot was delivered).

MagSafe Ammo worked - better than anything else. Tests were done without MagSafe's knowledge, so some versions tested were the lowest powered. For example, two types of .380 ACP are offered; the .380 Defender, a 60-grainer at 1,360 fps in a Colt Mustang; and the .380 MAX (designed for a big city's undercover drug agents) with a 52-grain slug sizzling along at 1,620 fps in the Mustang.

The Defender has 247 ft-lbs of energy, while the MAX load has 303 ft-lbs. The Defender's lower velocity hampered stopping power, resulting in a Average Incapacitation Time (AIT) of 7.12 seconds. That's the average time for five different goats, each shot once with the MagSafe 60-grain Defender.

However - and this is where things get interesting - there wasn't a jacketed hollowpoint bullet in ANY caliber which dropped the goats faster than MagSafe's weakest .380 load!

MagSafe's .380 beat every .45 ACP slug, every 10mm, every 9mm (including police-only ammo), every .40 caliber - no matter who made it - Cor-Bon, Remington, Glaser and HydraShok.

In fact, MagSafe's lowest-powered .380 ACP load had an AIT faster than the best manstopper of all time - Remington's .357 Magnum 125-grain JHP!

Average Incapacitation Times for all other MagSafe's calibers were in the 4-second range, and MagSafe topped the tests in every caliber but .357 Magnum (a prototype Quik-Shot beat by a fraction of a second), and .38 Special, where Glaser won by .04 seconds. Had the .38 Special tests been done in a 2-inch barrel, MagSafe would have topped that test, too.

THE BOTTOM LINE
MagSafe Ammo is faster, recoils less, and stops attackers faster than any other ammunition in the world. Elite forces are outfitted with MagSafe, from Navy SEALS to the Royal Hong Kong Police anti-gang units, from big-city undercover narcs to guards at some of America's meanest prisons.

The reason is simple. MagSafe works. It's expensive, but it works. You really can turn your .380 into .45 auto, but you have to pay for this kind of hand-crafted performance.

The question is this: Just how much is your life worth?

Here are the stats for 9mm Luger:

Name......................... Wt... Speed/Hitting Power... Description............................
#95 + P Max Load...... 64... 1,950fps/540 ft-lbs.... Best all-around 9mm load
#9MG Mini-Glock Load 50... 2,000fps/444 ft-lbs.... Best for short-barrelled autos
#9D Defender............. 60... 1,800fps/431 ft-lbs.... Lowest recoil of any 9mm

[garyb]

I don't know what kind of animals they are using a 380 on, nor how effective this ammo is. For what it is worth, we are using Hornady's Critical Defense 90gr FTX in our 380 for carry. You may wish to look into this Hornady ammo. However, there's lots of good carry ammo out there, so I am not entering any debate. Do your homework. It is what you feel confident using. Hopefully you never need to use it and if you do, it does the job for you. The new 380 ammo has come a long way and the FTX is an excellent choice among many other good ones and not so good ones.

[Vanzpp]

I am going to try some of this ammo: see how it functions in the gun, and how accurate it is compared to conventional rounds. I have an idea that, within the 7 yard defensive range, it will be effective.

Let us know how your test goes! I'm always interested in input from others on this round.