I'm liking WST more and more

[jlottmc]

Bawanna,
I was wondering if you are aware of any court cases where a self defense shooting, involving the use of reloaded ammo, was the basis of charges held against the shooter?

-Steve

Read some of Masaad Ayoob's work. He talks about this extensively. Thing is a bottom feeder will try to show malicious intent with ammo (evidence) that the defendant (you) literally manufactured. It also serves a bottom feeder for penalty enhancements. I can't think of a case right off that was lost solely to this, but why give the lawyers ammunition (pun not really intended)?

[Mattias44]

If they're looking into what type of ammo you used, you're already f... err, screwed.

[jg rider]

I've heard about the loading your own defense ammo thing too.

And also before I get into that, I LOVE WST in 40 and 45. For 40, it gives the most mild recoil I have ever felt. Many of you are probably used to the snappiness of 40, but the WST really makes it mild. In 45 for competition, I run 4.3grs WST with a Berry's 200gr bullet.

For me, the BEST defense powder I can find is Blue Dot. It's dirty for mid range loads and doesn't burn completely, but at the upper end, it's amazing. This is my carry and home defense load...

124gr Hornady XTP 9mm with nickel-plated case. Loaded with 7.9grs Blue Dot. The listed velocity on Alliant's site is 1238 fps!!!! I know I will never get that out of my Kahr with the short barrel, but that's still packing some serious energy.

155gr Hornady XTP .40 with nickel-plated case. Loaded with 10.2grs Blue Dot. Listed velocity is 1221 fps, and I'm using a Beretta 96 vertec, so the velocity would probably be similar out of my gun.

In the Kahr for carry, I have a mixture of my XTP reloads, Hornady Critical Defense, and Winchester PDX1. You never know how all hollow points will act so for me, it's good to have them all ready to go since they all feed flawlessly. I will most likely change the Critical Defense to critical duty though, because the Critical Duty is heavier (135gr vs 115) and has given many people good ballistic results.

I also like WST for competition in my 180gr. and 200 gr. .45 loads. And your right it is mild.

FYI for does that are history buffs: Many years ago when Rob Latham was shooting .45s out of 1911s, he discovered a really mild shotgun powder, Win. 452AA. It was called the softest of all powders. And people agreed. Unfortunately Olin Corp. in their wisdom decided to discontinue it. Then they came out with WST which is almost as mild as the 452 stuff.

[jocko]

I like u

Bawanna,
Let me first say that I don't disagree with your position on only carrying factory loaded ammunition, as that's what I do as well, but I'm not sure that there have ever been any court cases that went against the shooter due to the use of hand loaded SD rounds.

I was wondering if you are aware of any court cases where a self defense shooting, involving the use of reloaded ammo, was the basis of charges held against the shooter?

-Steve

am waiting tyo see that first case kand then also to see a conviction resulting from that scenario to. I don't buy into it but that is just me. If that is indeed gonna be a total worry to one,maybe he should not be carrying then: Just sayin

One assmes alot of extra legal sh!t when he puts a gun on his body, remember that.

[jg rider]

am waiting tyo see that first case kand then also to see a conviction resulting from that scenario to. I don't buy into it but that is just me. If that is indeed gonna be a total worry to one,maybe he should not be carrying then: Just sayin

One assmes alot of extra legal sh!t when he puts a gun on his body, remember that.

I'm not so concerned with a prosecution as I am of a law suit by relatives. I don't know of any firearm suit, but I heard of one that involved a stabbing. The knife in question had been sharpened on both edges which was then considered a dagger and the stabee's attorney claimed the knife's only function was to kill. There had been an arrest for carrying a concealed dagger.
This happened a long time ago so I don't remember all the particulars

[Bawanna]

I feel fortunate, I have an untapped 8# keg of 452AA and a couple 1# cans too. I used it for shotgun.

For the life of me I can't think what WST stands for, I feel so dumb and embarrassed to ask but there are a ton of new powders out there in recent times and I tend to stick with my old favorites.

I may have to try the 452AA in my 45, never used it.

[Tinman507]

I don't know nuffin about 452AA.

I DO know about Old #7. Does that count?

[jg rider]

I feel fortunate, I have an untapped 8# keg of 452AA and a couple 1# cans too. I used it for shotgun.

For the life of me I can't think what WST stands for, I feel so dumb and embarrassed to ask but there are a ton of new powders out there in recent times and I tend to stick with my old favorites.

I may have to try the 452AA in my 45, never used it.

Wow ! How long have you had them. It's well over 10 years since Olin discontinued it. You need to to use it up fast or it'll spoil and you'll get light.

[Mattias44]

Bawanna, WST stands for Winchester Super Target. I'm going to run and grab some tonight after work to see what all the hype is about!

[jg rider]

I feel fortunate, I have an untapped 8# keg of 452AA and a couple 1# cans too. I used it for shotgun.

For the life of me I can't think what WST stands for, I feel so dumb and embarrassed to ask but there are a ton of new powders out there in recent times and I tend to stick with my old favorites.

I may have to try the 452AA in my 45, never used it.

Oh hell! Since I shoot a lot I'll take chance and take it off your hands. What do you think need to get for it?

[Bawanna]

Wow ! How long have you had them. It's well over 10 years since Olin discontinued it. You need to to use it up fast or it'll spoil and you'll get light.

I'm sure it's been well over 20 years since I got it. Actually a friend and shooting partner bought it and gave it to me. I don't know what the shelf life is. I hope since it's never been open and it's been in a cool dark dry place all those years it's still ok. Guess I'll find out some day.

I loaded a ton of trap loads with that stuff.

I have to say I've never heard of Winchester Super Target so something on the to try list some day.

I've got several pounds of W231 to burn up for now.

[jg rider]

Bawanna, WST stands for Winchester Super Target. I'm going to run and grab some tonight after work to see what all the hype is about!

IMHO, don't get talked into WSF (Win Supper Field) I thinkit has a sharper kick.

[Bawanna]

Oh hell! Since I shoot a lot I'll take chance and take it off your hands. What do you think need to get for it?

Wasn't figuring on selling it but I'll certainly share with you. If I ever get south or you ever get north we could do a hand off.

Wait you got that AR 22 conversion deal with all them mags, maybe trading stock. Very rare, not made any more. Collectible, in original container.....
Chain yank right there.

I think Haz Mat would kill us shipping powder. The shop I use a lot for Dept stuff won't even ship powder or primers any more. Lucky they started coming to the gun show here in town and bring me stuff there when I need it.

[muggsy]

I think the issue with using reloads for carry is a prosecutor saying you were premeditated and made your own special killing bullets.

I have no concerns carrying my reloads far as quality goes, just the legal issues which of course would be just one of many.

With factory you can say you carry them cause the guy at Wally World said they were good. You'd probably get off on an insanity clause.

I wouldn't be concerned about it, Bawanna. The prosecutor is going to make a big deal about whatever defensive ammo you use if he or she is of that mind. That's why it pays to have a good lawyer on retainer.

[jg rider]

Wasn't figuring on selling it but I'll certainly share with you. If I ever get south or you ever get north we could do a hand off.

Wait you got that AR 22 conversion deal with all them mags, maybe trading stock. Very rare, not made any more. Collectible, in original container.....
Chain yank right there.

I think Haz Mat would kill us shipping powder. The shop I use a lot for Dept stuff won't even ship powder or primers any more. Lucky they started coming to the gun show here in town and bring me stuff there when I need it.

LOL! Bad timing. Since we have two Spikes AR .22 dedicated uppers on lowers, I haven't used the conversion unit in years.
So yesterday I posted it for sale as a military issue M261 .22 conversion unit in Craigs List (real sneaky like) they haven't caught on yet, Back Page .com, Outdoors Trader, and Northwest Firearms. Sold it this morning.
Met the buyer at a mall. I didn't think it was gonna go so fast.
I don't remember telling anyone here that it was up for sale
Now I only need to raise another $200.00, or $100.00 if I can chew the seller down, to buy a $500.00 Walther TPH that someone here directed me to.

I don't think shipping powder is a haz. mat. issue. I may be mistaken but I thought it was only primers that is haz. mat