? about plating coming off feed ramp and chamber on PM9.

[wagon]

Deadhead, may be we better off give them an extra day to test fire 200 rounds before sending it out to us?

They will send me one as soon as they get some more in. How long? Not sure--probably a week or 2.

[LDM]

I called Kahr this morning and went over the history and present situation (i.e second barrel flaking).

The solution proposed was to send my barrel back for a new one, however they are out of barrels right now and I was told it might be a couple of weeks before they got "another batch in". There was no definitive time stated when a barrel would be available.

The CS rep made a distinction as to Customer Service having barrels and Production having barrels; I understood him to say Production has barrels now and Customer Service does not. He said this innocently enough and off the cuff.

He obviously had not thought through the point that myself and other Kahr owners were being delayed in getting a defective part replaced for the sake of continued production of new product. I understand the economic imperative of a manufacturer routing parts to Production over Customer Service, but frankly I have a problem with this. Of course I know of no law that says they have to favor service over production either.

I asked if there was any assurance that the problem with flaky barrels was solved. I asked if this was an extensive problem. The fellow I spoke to was nice enough, but could not say. I believe he simply did not know, as opposed to purposely holding info back. He said sometimes this happens.

I asked a couple of times for emphasis, and was told explicitly there was no problem shooting the weapon and it would be fully functional. I would have felt better about that if I had been impressed the fellow knew everything going on and had a more definitive statement (e.g. we have found the problem and fixed it).

In short, I got courteous service but no solution nor impression that they were on top of the problem and it was fixed. It just was not a confidence inspiring experience, albeit it may have simply been the person I spoke to was not informed.


It pains me to report this, but that is what happened. I need to fall back and think about this a bit.

[jocko]

the gun is totally safe to shoot, that is a no brainer. they will replace ur barrel, that is a no brainer. The fact that u got two in a row would not set well with me either but once again I just do know either how they test or would test for this, and more than likely not ALL PM9 barrels going out the door are defective--I think. I am sure the person is about as unqualified to give u any more inforamtion that you got. Some of the CS people are phone answers and that is it. LDM indeed fall back and think about it. It is not like it does not work, it is not like kahr is not going to take care of u either, but if it pains you that bad, man , just trade it in on a gun that indeed pleases u. This is not a life and death situation either, there are plenty of other companies who make small 9's.

I'm not saying the above to be a smart ass either, but WE can't speed this up any further, and I just don't think kahr is putting u off either. Patience is golden.

again sorry We are also here to help to, not antagonize...

[deadhead1971]

I DO NOT think it is chance that LDM got 2 bad barrels. I think this is the tip of the iceberg. There seems to be a 2009 production run with these issues. Mine was a IB07XX PM9 from June 2009. Are there any other models besides the PM9 that has had this issue?

Maybe Kahr does this, but they sould select a few random samples from the barrel batches and shoot a few hundred rounds through them and see. Kahr may not have gotten a bunch of barrels returned yet, but as word gets out and folks pay attention and check, I bet there will be a lot more returned.

The counter argument to all of this is that this is a non-issue, and we are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[jocko]

both

I DO NOT think it is chance that LDM got 2 bad barrels. I think this is the tip of the iceberg. There seems to be a 2009 production run with these issues. Mine was a IB07XX PM9 from June 2009. Are there any other models besides the PM9 that has had this issue?

Maybe Kahr does this, but they sould select a few random samples from the barrel batches and shoot a few hundred rounds through them and see. Kahr may not have gotten a bunch of barrels returned yet, but as word gets out and folks pay attention and check, I bet there will be a lot more returned.

The counter argument to all of this is that this is a non-issue, and we are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

theories could be true They do test fire every gun, how many rounds I don't know or if they pull one every 100 or so guns and do more testing, again just speculation.

[wagon]

Mine is IB (July 2009).

Jocko: I would think it is more fair for us who have this issue to say that our (affected) guns are "totally functional so far", but I couldn't imagine anyone person can step up and conoclusively say "the gun is totally safe to shoot, that is a no brainer".. if the product is out of spec then it is out of spec, when it happen, performance and the safety of the product can be / may be impaired. That impairement may happen in 1000 rounds later, or 100 rounds later, or "next round" whatever the circumstances can be... which indeed, can be "life and death" situation.

Mine has only a single range time, and a total of < 200 rounds. It was a pleasant shooting experience with it, I did like it very much don't take me wrong, I even miss it! BUT ... will you COMFORTABLY fly a plane when you know the coating in the engine is peeling/flacking? This is a friearm we are talking about.

It is not we don't work with Kahr on this issue, we are, but we don't expect to be their QA of their reaplcement parts... an old qulaity philosophy goes a long way: "DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, and EVERYTIME".

I DO NOT think it is chance that LDM got 2 bad barrels. I think this is the tip of the iceberg. There seems to be a 2009 production run with these issues. Mine was a IB07XX PM9 from June 2009. Are there any other models besides the PM9 that has had this issue?

Maybe Kahr does this, but they sould select a few random samples from the barrel batches and shoot a few hundred rounds through them and see. Kahr may not have gotten a bunch of barrels returned yet, but as word gets out and folks pay attention and check, I bet there will be a lot more returned.

The counter argument to all of this is that this is a non-issue, and we are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[jocko]

u might be right to. not going to argue "wording" with you...

[LDM]

good experince with Kahr today

My barrel problem has been on my mind and I called Kahr back today to take it up again. Spoke to a different guy and he was as courteous and correct as the other guys I have spoken to, but he got more engaged and I got more info.

He said the flaking was not that common and for me to get two in a row was really bad luck. He promised to try to get me a replacement sooner than later. He apologized for the inconvenience.

He said it was a cosmetic issue and the weapon is safe to shoot and fully functional. Nonetheless he said anything less than perfect was not what I paid for, nor what Kahr wants. He said Kahr wants to produce and sell a high quality item. He said things would be made right.

This last statement is really what I wanted to hear and what should be said in circumstances like this. This guy was genuinely sincere and clearly wanted to make it right. We all know it was not this guy's fault (he's customer service, not a barrel maker or plater) but he took the responsibility for his company.

When I get this kind of reaction I appreciate it. It makes it easier to be more patience and give more grace. We'll wait & see, but I feel better about things.

When I get a barrel, I'll report.

[500KV]

He said it was a cosmetic issue and the weapon is safe to shoot and fully functional.

LDM, How did that statement strike you?
If the plating is for cosmetics only and if the gun is "fully functional" without it, why do they put it on there to start with?
I've never seen what I would consider a pretty handgun barrel have you?

[mr surveyor]

I've never seen what I would consider a pretty handgun barrel have you?

HERESEY! WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT AT ONCE!


surv

[500KV]

HERESEY! WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT AT ONCE!


surv

Duly noted surv..Should'a said sexy.

[mr surveyor]

hhmmmmm

[LDM]

LDM, How did that statement strike you?
If the plating is for cosmetics only and if the gun is "fully functional" without it, why do they put it on there to start with?
I've never seen what I would consider a pretty handgun barrel have you?

In the context that the weapon will function and is safe, then the flaking can be termed cosmetic.

I think the reason it is plated is for a functional reason: corrosion resistance, etc.

Most important... I came away with strong feeling they intend to make it right. For whatever reason, two barrels in a row struck a nerve with the guy I talked to. Sometimes over half a battle is just getting folks attention, and yesterday I got lucky.

[jocko]

plating

LDM, How did that statement strike you?
If the plating is for cosmetics only and if the gun is "fully functional" without it, why do they put it on there to start with?
I've never seen what I would consider a pretty handgun barrel have you?

give longer life to the barrel. if done right they should last. bluing is cosmetic also but it sure looks nice when it is done right. They didn't nickel plate the barrels for "pretty Looks" actually some have come forward and stated that they didn't think their barrels on their kahrs were plated even and kahr has plated their barrels from day one. If we can remember when our guns were new they were not shinny like nickel or chrome would look but one could certainly polish that barrel to a shinny finsih. I actually never knew that kahr nickel palted their barrels until we started seeing this flaking and I was able to check with kahr to see about how long they have been doing it. It suprised me. I am certain there are benefits from nickel plating other than cosmetic. some wrote on here about BMW years back coming out with nickelsil cylinder and they had issues right at the start but finally got the process corrected. That certainly was not a cosmetic thing so I feel durability has to play very strong in nickel plating.

google up: nickel plating, I think one can learn alot from that. I just did . Very interesting reading..

[jocko]

Was readng about the Jerico put out by IWI Isralie Weapons Industries, I believe this was the magnum research model also called the Jerico 941. anyhow their description gives "chrome lined polygonal rifle barrel. "