25th Anniversary K9
25th Anniversary K9

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Not trying to start a range war, but ..

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Not trying to start a range war, but ..

    I've been looking for a single pistol to serve as a concealed carry weapon in general and as a (open or concealed carry) personal defense weapon on my farm. My work gets pretty dirty at times, and I have to crawl in the dirt under machinery sometimes. And then there is plenty of chaff, dust, and grit when making hay, and sometimes sudden rain storms, and in the winter, intense cold and deep snow. So, I thought I needed a Glock.

    Then I came across a Springfield Armory XD-S in .45 and loved the size and ease of concealment. It felt so trim and hid so easily compared to the baby Glocks. I could look past the problems people reported, but Springfield has just issued another recall, which is honorable of them but does not make their gun more appealing to me. So, I started looking again.

    A retired highway patrol friend of mine asked me if I had considered a Kahr. I hadn't even heard of Kahr, so no. But I checked into the Kahrs and really like the looks of the CW45 and even more so the PM45, both of which look better on paper at least than the XD-S, and either of which should work for cc.

    So, now I'm wondering how the Kahrs hold up to a dirty environment. Whatever I carry on the farm is going to get pretty gross from time to time, even though I will attempt to protect it, but I may really need it to work someday when it is dirty or wet or very cold. I hear that Kahrs are manufactured to very tight tolerances, which is great except that that could make them more vulnerable to dirt or water.

    I wish I could afford a Glock 30S and a PM45, but that is not likely to happen in this lifetime. I would try to scrape together the money for the PM45 if I thought it would work even in the dirt the way a Glock is reputed to do. But if not, I may have to purchase a (comparatively bulky) Glock and forgo cc off farm much of the time.

    So, do you have any experience or insights into the reliability of the CW45 or PM45 in a dirty environment, relative to the reliability of a Glock?

  • #2
    Wow. I have never had to carry a gun in such an environment. Glock would be my first thought also. I agree with your worries about the Kahrs tight tolerances. The great thing about Kahr guns right now is you could buy one and carry it for a while in your work environment and see how it does then sell it person to person if it doesn't work out. You probably wouldn't take too much of a hit.

    It will be interesting to see everyone's thoughts.

    Comment


    • #3
      Whats the main purpose of the gun on the farm. Two legged varmints or 4 legged varmints.

      Usually a carbine makes a better on the farm gun but maybe your in a bad farm neighborhood.

      I have total faith in my PM45 and kust as much in the CW. Don't seem like it would be too difficult to protect it to some extent.

      A one gun to do all eliminates my thought of revolver on the farm and CW else where.

      A proper holster is a must for the Glock or XDS, Kahr too but its more forgiving.

      I'm not concerned with the XDS recall either. Its a good gun. New ones won't have the issue and old ones will get fixed. My son's is back getting the cure as we speak.
      http://bawanna45.wix.com/bawannas-grip-emporium#!
      In Memory of Paul "Dietrich" Stines.
      Dad: Say something nice to your cousin Shirley
      Dietrich: For a fat girl you sure don't sweat much.
      Cue sound of Head slap.

      RIP Muggsy & TMan

      Comment


      • #4
        seems like I may have responded to this same thread on another forum in the last week or so, but I'll do it again here as I don't thing I "qualified" my response with any personal experience.

        I too did a bit of hay bailing back in the '70s with the early first release of the International Model 241 round bailer. For what it's worth, you had to sit side saddle on the tractor seat so you could weave back and forth across the windrow to make sure you kept the rolling bail level (else it would really jam the whole machine into half a day's repair work). That thing alone, when properly working, threw enough crap in your face to make you need not only eye protection but full body cover. So, I do know how nasty the hayfield can be. I also know how nasty my line of work for the last 35+ years can be in the woods, swamps, construction sites etc. I'm still a firm believer in wheel guns for the really nasty, dusty work.

        Now, as to the Kahr line ..... I do love the Kahr pistols, especially the CW9 that I carry when in "social clothes". It's an extremely reliable and comfortable handgun. The XDs ..... I recently bought one after selling a perfectly good (but not really "needed") CM9. My XDs45 is a perfect fit and runs as good as any semi-auto I've ever owned, and even with that I decided to ship it in for the "upgrades" the morning after the "recall". I don't and wouldn't consider the recall to be a big deal. The XDs is a fine handgun for it's intended purpose, and I have no doubt that Springfield (like any other quality manufacturer) will take care of any issues.

        I just don't consider semi-auto's to be the best for our kind of "work conditions", particularly those that are built to tight slide to rail tolerances.

        I still say get a good used (stainless) wheel gun in the smallest package of the largest caliber you can comfortably handle and learn to shoot it.

        For my "field duties" I've always carried a revolver of some sort and never had a problem, with the exception of fighting the rusties on the blued models after they get rained on or a bit too much sweat. The stainless SP101 I've been carrying for the last 3 years or so gets wiped off once a week, or after a frog strangling rain event, or after a range trip. Five rounds of hot .357 mag is enough for anything I may encounter on the farm or the woods. Being able to load up a round or two of snake shot when "in season" is definitely a plus to me as well.

        Maybe buy a Kahr CW AND a wheel gun of your choice


        surv
        ________________________________________
        ---------------------------------------------------

        It's not gun control that we need, it's soul control!

        Comment


        • #5
          I personally prefer a stainless revolver for harsh environment duty.
          A S&W or Ruger 357 Magnum might be in order.
          640/SP101 or 686/GP100.

          My favorite revolver (Special K) S&W 65-3 M&P 3" Heavy Barrel

          Comment


          • #6
            I also remember this post on another forum. This time I'll add the Kahr into the mix. Kahr's, XDS's, and many others are absolutely fine pistols for social work. I would not recommend either one for extremely dirty conditions. That is not the job they were designed to take on. As I mentioned before I would look for a used Glock 26/27/30 as they can be found at attractive prices and are quite capable of living in dirty conditions and still work. I believe I also mentioned smaller framed CZ's, but there tough to find and finding a decent used one is almost impossible. The Glock 26/27/30 might not be the perfect pistol for the two extremely different jobs your asking a pistol to do , but it is quite capable of doing both jobs very well. I sent my XDS9 on a vacation a couple days ago, since then I've been CC my G26. It is not as comfortable of a CC pistol as my XDS9 but it is a far cry from being uncomfortable. Glocks are very plain bare bones looking pistols with fewer parts, and about as attractive as a day old Cow Patty. In your case, This is a good thing though as there is not as many little nooks and crannies for dirty to get into. Plus if you absolutely needed to I'm quite sure if it got to the point where the pistol got caked with mud form a rain and dirt combination you could just drop the mag and the round in the chamber squirt it off with a hose and some WD40 reload and it would still work till you got home to clean it. (I did this once with a KTp3at and it worked fine so I'm sure a glock would have no problems doing the same thing many times over)Glocks are a far cry from being one of my favorite pistols, but even I have to admit the Sombi+ches flat out work. If It didn't, and it wasn't the type of all around duty pistol it is, it would be gone, as sure as yesterdays newspaper. So my answer still remains Find a used G26/27/30, Especially if a wheel gun is out of the question.
            Last edited by Popeye; 09-03-2013, 09:50 AM.
            To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.


            SHOOT STRAIGHT, RIDE SAFE

            Comment


            • #7
              Just wondering why you feel the need to carry on a farm? I think you'd be better off with a standard 1911 A-1 which was designed to be carried and function in the conditions you described. You might be better served by a Mossberg 12 ga. or an AR-15 on the farm. Buy the CM9 for going to the ice cream social or local VFW. One gun can rarely do it all.
              Never trust anyone who doesn't trust you to own a gun.

              Life Member - NRA
              Colt Gold Cup 70 series
              Colt Woodsman
              Ruger Mark III .22-45
              Kahr CM9
              Kahr P380

              Comment


              • #8
                2"-4" Stainless .357 revolver will take care of anything you may need to do. A Ruger or S&W will do nicely.
                "Never pet a burning dog"

                Comment


                • #9
                  As I read your post the first thing that came to mind was revolver. +1 sp101 or gp100. I don't see anything wrong with cc'ing a revolver. Next I thought of a cz compact. I've shot one filthy and it operated fine. I accidentally repeated the dropped in the mud experiment. . Last, if you want a Kahr, I'd probably recommend a steel model. Might be less likely do suffer damage with dirt or grit in the internals. My k40 seems to be less finicky than my mk9.

                  It's tough to ask one gun to do everything. A good strategy might be to start with a 357/38sp revolver then add a 357/38sp carbine when finances allow. Like a Rossi or Henry lever or a Ruger 77/357 bolt.

                  Good luck.
                  ​O|||||||O

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I carry a pm45 iny front jeans pocket...always. Grit, sand, lint, seeds, dust, sweat, rain, hydraulic fluid ....dont ask, Holding up nice since 2010. Every few weeks i field strip and wipe the crud out pf the bore and check the rest. A little break free and wete good to go. The used one i got has never failed to fire or feed. The new one had a few feed issues till about 300 rds of wwb ammo...not the best for breakin. Now its faultless too.

                    And...rides there in the pocket on the harley too. 200 miles yesterday alone. Fifty o that in monsoon rain. Zero....zero rust issues. I dont even check for rust any more.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Not trying to start a range war, but ..

                      Gp100 or 1911.
                      Or
                      Glock.
                      This place isn't safe.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ruger speed six........................

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I wouldn't put my Kahr pistols through that environment for two reasons: 1) I like 'em way too much and prefer to keep them nice looking, and 2) I'd be concerned that the tight engineering tolerances would not allow them to be reliable in such a dirty environment.

                          After 3 days of training with my RRA carbine and my two G22s in the South Carolina sand, I'm quite confident that a Glock would wear well and operate just fine in your farming work. When my Glocks get exceptionally dirty, I've been known to put them in the dishwasher with the other tupperware. Take 'em out, lube 'em up and they are like factory fresh.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by muggsy View Post
                            Just wondering why you feel the need to carry on a farm? I think you'd be better off with a standard 1911 A-1 which was designed to be carried and function in the conditions you described. You might be better served by a Mossberg 12 ga. or an AR-15 on the farm. Buy the CM9 for going to the ice cream social or local VFW. One gun can rarely do it all.
                            That is the correct answer.
                            A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition
                            -Rudyard Kipling

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I would not hesitate to carry my Kahr PM40 under any condition and I do. If it gets dirty, wet, etc...., I clean it. Takes only a few minutes. You can certainly protect it to a certain degree by how you carry it....good holster or IWB. Mine gets sweaty and dusty all the time when I'm out on my tractor, food plots, etc.... No problem. Very reliable. I'm sure there are a number of guns out there that will do the job for you, but you need to decide which gun fits the job you intend for it....and why you are carrying it. I agree that no one gun does it all. Best to have a few...
                              My Sword - PM4044N/CTL/Talons
                              - "One should diligently train at all times." Miyamoto Musashi
                              - "Train in technique until it requires no thought - no mind and just happens." Takan Soho
                              - "The truth beyond the technique....Here's where we stop thinking and start shooting." Brian Enos
                              - "A single sword against the cold sky." Yamaoka Tesshu
                              - "You must concentrate upon and consecrate yourself wholly to each day, as though a fire were raging in your hair."
                              Taisen Deshimaru
                              - "Know your sword!"

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X