What part of range safety don't you understand?

[garyb]

We as the firearm owners need to be self policing. We need to insist anyone we shoot with or near or at our clubs and ranges get training. We need to promote the NRA and other firearms groups and promote the safe handling courses and youth safety programs. It needs to be us.

The second the government gets involved, you end up with Obamacare.

Such a truthful statement....and I agree. However, WE don't do that. You don't. I don't. Training is necessary. Mandatory. I don't care who requires it. Thinking about WHO requires it is silly. Just get it done.

[Bawanna]

This is almost as good as the watching the Democratic National Convention. No I didn't watch it but I heard it sucked really bad.

[garyb]

Barth, have to disagree on the 'concealed permits turned out well' argument. It hasn't. Liberal/Progressive states have made it virtually impossible to get one and have prevented me from being able to visit and be armed. So, we pursue reciprocity. That will not turn out well either if you ask me. If the feds get involved, it'll be worse. Lowest common denominator will win and we'll all be issued permits like NY and CA, basically NOT.

The only FAIR solution is full compliance w/ the 2A in all 50 states. No infringement. No permits. No training. Period. Not gonna happen, I know, just my belief in how it should be.

As for the safety aspect and requiring some kind of training. I have to agree w/ the 'no way no how' position that folks like b4uqzme are articulating very well. Cars and guns are not the same thing and DLs do not prevent road rage, violence, and accidents w/ cars involved. As for lawn mowers and chainsaws, yes, those don't typically hurt other people when used inappropriately, but sometimes they do. Neither do guns, but sometimes they do.

But other things do if we want to REALLY run that analogy out.

Bow and arrow. Gonna get state run training to go do some archery w/ your kids now?

Fireworks, legal in plenty of states. you can burn your neighbors house down or mame a neighborhood child w/ them. So, do we all get training in those states where they are legal on safely operating fireworks?

Gas grill or deep fat fryers. Neighbor nearly burned his house down and the one next to it w/ a deep fryer a few thanksgivings back. Gas grill training?

Where does it end?

Smoking? I don't smoke, never have, never will. I don't want to smell it anywhere in public and we've solidly proven that second hand smoke is dangerous. So, all smokers need to be trained and also go thru some sensitivity training on respecting other peoples personal space?

No. No. No.

Sorry. I don't do football. So I didn't have anything else to do but respond...been out of touch since last night and had forum withdrawal :-)

As a matter of fact...in most states, if you have not received special archery safety training, you can not hunt with a bow and arrow. Surpirses You? It is a fact. Go out west and try to bow hunt without archery safety certificate and you will drive home alone while your buddies hunt. You need training. Archery is a unique sport that requires special training. It is a fact. Nothing wrong with training.

[Bawanna]

Your really obsessed with this requires training thing huh?

A person can't learn how to shoot a bow proficiently, then go out and stalk an animal and stick it without required training?
We have hunter safety requirement, never heard anything specific about bow hunting.

I've done well with a bow in an earlier life and you guessed it, no training. Got some tips from experienced hunters on equipment but didn't spend a dime to pay somebody to tell me what to do and how to do it.

[garyb]

Your really obsessed with this requires training thing huh?

A person can't learn how to shoot a bow proficiently, then go out and stalk an animal and stick it without required training?
We have hunter safety requirement, never heard anything specific about bow hunting.

I've done well with a bow in an earlier life and you guessed it, no training. Got some tips from experienced hunters on equipment but didn't spend a dime to pay somebody to tell me what to do and how to do it.

I will keep it simple. Someone taught me how to shoot and hunt with the gun and bow. I will always remember that person(s) and I will always remember the classes that got me on the right track to gun safety and archery. It was my Dad and my next door neighbor who was my scout master. I remember and respect those people. It is a way of life in my area.

I am guessing that someone you respect, taught you how to shoot and hunt. Do you remember and acknowledge that person Bawanna? You did not learn on your own. Someone you respect taught you. There is always something to learn from others. Yet, I acknowledge that not everyone was as fortunate as you and I. Some folks do not have someone to teach them and must take a course and even pay for that course. I did not have to pay for it...and it sounds like you did not either. But someone you respect did teach you. Remember back Bawanna.

Training is essential. You would not put a gun in the hands of your son or grandson without training them. It is a treasured gift...even if we pay for it.

Who trained you Bawanna?

[jocko]

Iuess if u hunt or learntohunt with an older personu might consider that training. No one in my family hunted. I learnedby DOING. Made mistakes along the way buyt again that is growing up to. I bowhunted alot out west quite a few years back Firsttime I ever heard of having to have any archery training. Not doubting you but again would like to learn more of what sstates require this and at what age. Many people are grandfathered in due to age etc. I see nutting wrong with trining IF THAT IS WHAT U DESIRE. You can't train meto hunt, that is acqired with time in the woods, Damn hard IMO to even train a person to shoot a bow even, What do u hav eto do, put 6 arrow in a target at 15 yards or what??? Sure sounds screwey to me..

InIndianathere is a age break off where in order to get any hunting license you must have beenthrough a hunter educastion course. Set through one once with my son and it was more mickey mouse than anything else, but it cost him $35 at the time, and he never touched, smelled or seen a gun, bow. Just lectures and how boring ithat is for a 8-12 year old individual. I know his dad feel asleep.

[berettabone]

If I would have known it was so easy to confuse people, I would do it more often. All I said was, I don't think you should have to pay, to carry a firearm. I don't think that training should be mandatory per state regs, and I think it's a good idea to have a qualifier to get a CCW. If that confuses you, go back to the md, and get an increase on your...............nevermind.

[b4uqzme]

Ugh! You guys are killing me. We all agree that training is essential. What we're talking about is not being allowed to buy a gun until we can prove we bought our training from the government. Sheesh. I love you guys but sometimes.........

I promised not to argue this point anymore so I'll go back to biting my tongue.

Carry on.

[jocko]

wtf

Ugh! You guys are killing me. We all agree that training is essential. What we're talking about is not being allowed to buy a gun until we can prove we bought our training from the government. Sheesh. I love you guys but sometimes.........

I promised not to argue this point anymore so I'll go back to biting my tongue.

Carry on.

I bet that really hurts How about just puttingf ur top lip and ur bottom lip together and save the fokking pain and blood I think there is a government course coming up soon on biting your tongue.

[garyb]

A lot of states now require bow hunter education certificates in order to purchase a license to hunt in that state. It is very common now. You can learn on your own through the school of hard knocks. Or you can learn from folks that know their stuff and escalate your proficiency.

For example, I was a self taught taxidermist. My work was OK for several years. Then, I hooked up with a 2 time world champion and State Champion from PA for 3 days. That guy sky rocketed my taxidermy like it was amazing. Training is good. Saying that it is not worth while or even necessary to be educated/trained is...please forgive me....ignorant at best. Education is important...almost mandatory. Notice I said "almost". You can skip it, but you won't reach your full potential without it.

Back to the point... Would you put a gun in the hands of your son or grandson without training that boy? Be honest. You would make it mandatory because you love him and rightfully so. It is a FACT! That is how much you respect safety training....you would make it mandatory.

[berettabone]

So, what we have, is, training is essential, but we don't want it to be mandatory. We get pissed when someone does something unsafe. I believe making a qualifier shoot to get a CCW license is a start, and like I said, booting everyone else's arse off the range that can't follow the correct procedures. If something isn't mandatory, a lot won't take the time to become proficient and safe with their firearm. It's a vicious circle.

[garyb]

Ugh! You guys are killing me. We all agree that training is essential. What we're talking about is not being allowed to buy a gun until we can prove we bought our training from the government. Sheesh. I love you guys but sometimes.........

I promised not to argue this point anymore so I'll go back to biting my tongue.

Carry on.

It is essential, but you should be allowed to buy a gun without it....Hmmmm. Where does it say to buy the training from the government? Just take an approved safety course. How hard is that to do? I'll bite my tongue now.

[garyb]

So, what we have, is, training is essential, but we don't want it to be mandatory. We get pissed when someone does something unsafe. I believe making a qualifier shoot to get a CCW license is a start, and like I said, booting everyone else's arse off the range that can't follow the correct procedures. If something isn't mandatory, a lot won't take the time to become proficient and safe with their firearm. It's a vicious circle.

There is some common sense from someone that is trained.

[garyb]

Good thread. Let's not take things personal. We are just having a dialog about those who want to be trained vs those who do not.

[getsome]

This is a very interesting thread and it seems that even within our diehard pro 2nd amendment pro gun group there is division on this subject and I have to admit I'm sorta on the bubble myself....I am upset that my state Georgia doubled the price of a CCW from 4 years age because they could and they saw an opportunity to raise even more money from us sucker taxpayers.....

I don't want to see the Government get involved in this and perhaps charge gun owners more than they can afford for a license and mandated training...My state has very lenient gun laws and is a must issue state but if the right Politician gets elected and wants to come down on gun owners then mandated license and training fees might be used to keep leigitimate gun owners from being able to afford a CCW....

I think it should be left to the FFL seller to train a new gun owner at least how to safely load, unload and take down and reassemble their new handgun...I don't think this should be mandated but IMHO any FFL worth his salt would be sure this was done before a new owner walks out their door...