latest in Obama Care

[chrish]

mickeyfinn,

now that you've given up on the numbers argument and moved on to personal insults and the usual democrat/progressive play book to appeal to people's emotion rather than facts...where would you like to go w/ this? i don't think any amount of logic is going to work here, so why don't you just drop it and move on.

i've shown you that the numbers add up to what they are. there is no argument about the numbers. all my numbers agreed w/ yours, 8 million, 2 million, etc. we've resolved the policy vs insured argument, again my numbers jive. we've resolved that there those that signed up, those that paid, and a split in the final 'insured' that are either 'newly insured' or 'had prior coverage'. every news outlet agrees that people were cancelled because of changes to obamacare. all facts.

you claimed everbody agrees on the numbers accept FOX. the numbers I quoted were from the government and the insurance companies as reported on all news outlets (msnbc, cnn, fox, etc). where are those numbers, the ones I shared, in error?

so now you've played the 'whoa as me' card. yes, some people have more, some people have less. how far would you like to take that. what do people deserve to own. how much of my money is enough? how much would you like of my money to make things even?

you again inaccurately portrayed me as being upset or concerned about what i'm paying and that it's 'too much' and 'unfair'. I never said that, again look at my post. I simply stated what I pay for insurance. Where did I complain about it? Did you know that employer based insurance costs the company you work for about the same amount. About $1000 per month for a family of 3. So, as a self employed person, I'm OK with that. Never once have I complained about my premium because I read the balance sheet from my insurance company EVERY YEAR and I know they are not being greedy.

Which brings me to my next point and question for you. Do you have any idea what the profit margin for the major insurance carriers in this country are? Do you know what re-insurance is? Do you know how insurance works?

Most insurance companies make less than 5% on their policy holders, most of the really big carriers, less than 3%. I encourage you to go compare that to other industries who are not taking any RISK in their particular form of business, other than just being in business.

I understand where you are coming from. There are plenty of inequities in this world. But stealing is not a solution. It just is what it is. Some people better themselves thru hard work. Some people learn to be happy and not envy those better off than they are. Its the 'have nots' in this world that are greedy, not those of us that have worked hard and expect to be able to keep what we have earned for our families. You're priorities are backwards if you ask me.

[chrish]

Ah, now the insults begin. "f'tard," isn't really that good of an insult. It kinds of pokes fun at and denigrates the intellectually challenged among us. Ignorant people used to call them "retards."

Oh, yeah. Welcome to the New America.

One day I hope you'll have a little stay in one of our Re-education Camps. You're going to need that re-education once the people take over.

We'll send you there for free with absolutely no expense to you or your family. Hell, maybe we'll send your whole family with you.

Nice...classy...


See, that's the difference...most folks on the right are willing to live and let live as long as you stay out of our business. The left is ready to go full on oppression and concentration camp. You just proved everybody's point.

[mickeyfinn]

mickeyfinn,


now that you've given up on the numbers argument and moved on to personal insults and the usual democrat/progressive play book to appeal to people's emotion rather than facts...where would you like to go w/ this? i don't think any amount of logic is going to work here, so why don't you just drop it and move on.


i've shown you that the numbers add up to what they are. there is no argument about the numbers. all my numbers agreed w/ yours, 8 million, 2 million, etc. we've resolved the policy vs insured argument, again my numbers jive. we've resolved that there those that signed up, those that paid, and a split in the final 'insured' that are either 'newly insured' or 'had prior coverage'. every news outlet agrees that people were cancelled because of changes to obamacare. all facts.


you claimed everbody agrees on the numbers accept FOX. the numbers I quoted were from the government and the insurance companies as reported on all news outlets (msnbc, cnn, fox, etc). where are those numbers, the ones I shared, in error?


so now you've played the 'whoa as me' card. yes, some people have more, some people have less. how far would you like to take that. what do people deserve to own. how much of my money is enough? how much would you like of my money to make things even?


you again inaccurately portrayed me as being upset or concerned about what i'm paying and that it's 'too much' and 'unfair'. I never said that, again look at my post. I simply stated what I pay for insurance. Where did I complain about it? Did you know that employer based insurance costs the company you work for about the same amount. About $1000 per month for a family of 3. So, as a self employed person, I'm OK with that. Never once have I complained about my premium because I read the balance sheet from my insurance company EVERY YEAR and I know they are not being greedy.


Which brings me to my next point and question for you. Do you have any idea what the profit margin for the major insurance carriers in this country are? Do you know what re-insurance is? Do you know how insurance works?


Most insurance companies make less than 5% on their policy holders, most of the really big carriers, less than 3%. I encourage you to go compare that to other industries who are not taking any RISK in their particular form of business, other than just being in business.


I understand where you are coming from. There are plenty of inequities in this world. But stealing is not a solution. It just is what it is. Some people better themselves thru hard work. Some people learn to be happy and not envy those better off than they are. Its the 'have nots' in this world that are greedy, not those of us that have worked hard and expect to be able to keep what we have earned for our families. You're priorities are backwards if you ask me.

First, I have insulted no one. So save your lies.

And now, save your breath. I just couldn't force myself to get all the way to the bottom of these lies. And I doubt even the right wingers here could do it either.

And yes, the thread has taken a different direction. It is now examining some broader social issues.

Why would you object to that? These social issues are, after all, the basis of this nation's most pressing problems.

And finally, insurance companies as a whole are money grubbing blood suckers. I note that you deal in the percentages they make on policies. How about translating that into DOLLARS, my friend?

I mean they must make a couple of bucks here and there. They seem to have all the TV ads for the big PGA tournaments covered.

I live in Florida. We had homeowners insurance with the same company for 32 years. Never filed a claim. Not one. I'll say it again, no claims in 32 years.

I look at buying homeowners insurance like a gamble. You may need it. So you "bet" your money (by paying premiums) that if something bad does happen, you're covered.

So, our insurance company won everything I "bet" (by paying their premiums) 384 "hands" in a row. Yes sir, they collected 32 years of premiums from us and never lost a dime!

Then they just up and walked away from the table. If this were a real life poker game and they tried that, they would have had their ass kicked good and thrown out into an alley.

Yeah, insurance companies suck. They are leeches. And you work or did work for them. So I understand why you like them and defend them. The leeches let you have a little bit of their blood money so you don't mind helping them screw people.

[tv_racin_fan]

What I find funny is you.

I hate to ask because I'm sure FOX news or some Tea Party organ has supplied you with rote answers, but whose Internet, television and automobiles am I paying for?

Is it all those lazy black people again, those same black people whose food I pay for and put a roof over their heads too? Or is it those Mexican?

Is it THEM again? Damn moochers. See how happy those moochers are? They get EVERYTHING FOR NOTHING. We have to pay for it.

Yessir, drive through some real poor neighborhoods, and if you DARE, park you car, get out and TALK to some people.

We have a "new" class of people, by the way. We call them the "working poor." They and their families subsist by working fast food jobs and as cashiers in drugstores and so on. Most of them are supporting or contributing to supporting families on $8 and change an hour.

Ask them how they like their lives. Take a good look at the poor if you're not afraid too. Listen to what they have to say.

And what the hell, talk to some homeless people. A lot of them are vets. See how they're doing.

I said it before, and I'll say it again.

Divide and conquer.

Turn off the cable, get off your ass and TALK to people, talk to the less fortunate among you. You're surrounded by them, you know. Who knows how long it will be before they become REALLY angry about their situation.

The rich divide us, race divides us, regionalism divides us and so on.

But we ALLOW ourselves to be divided by the powers that be. They feed us the lies that divide us. (See - "Care to explain why I should pay for their internet? Their television? Their automobile?") Some people believe these lies. They are unwitting dupes of the rich.

The wealthy fear unity among the people of this country. They don't want it. Why?

Because instead of focusing on and fearing and fighting with each other, we might wake up and look at those who are holding us down.

If we're too busy fighting each other, the wealthy are left alone to count their money and laugh at us.

Personally, I think we should jack taxes way up on the obscenely wealthy (billionaires) in this country and to a lesser degree their many less fortunate counterpart millionaires and to an even lesser degree those comparatively poor people who pull down ONLY a few hundred thousand a year to pay for complete socialized medicine.

I see you didn't understand what I said.

Let me explain it in a different fashion.

You dont have issue with paying for someone elses healthcare?

Would you have issue with paying for someone elses firearm or internet or television or automobile by GOVT mandate?

When you allow the GOVT to mandate that you not only pay for your own but a portion of someone elses healthcare what makes you think that very same govt wont decide that it should mandate you pay for your own firearm and a portion of someone elses? Internet? Television? Telephone?

See that is the issue I have. IF the GOVT can decide that providing healthcare is within the realm of providing for the general welfare what is to prevent that self same govt from deciding that INTERNET or TELEVISION or AUTOMOBILE of FIREARM is not within the realm of providing for the general welfare?

Checked your PHONE bill lately? There is that GOVT providing for the general welfare I was speaking of right there on YOUR phone bill. Do you not recall when the govt issued vouchers for digital recievers for TELEVISION reception? Yep again there is that GOVT providing for the general welfare again. YOU and I pay/paid for those things the GOVT decided was within the providing for the GENERAL WELFARE realm. Tell me I am stupid for thinking that self same GOVT wont demand that YOU and I pay for something else for those less fortunate.

Does it sink in NOW sir or ma'am? DOES IT?

I see you didn't bother to go find out what happened when the GOVT decided to enact a LUXURY TAX on certain LUXURY items. Remember the "NO NEW TAXES" bit? I do, I lived during that time.. met a real nice marine carpenter who lost his job due to that LUXURY tax when he came to work for one of the bosses of the company I was working for.

Again I ask did you wonder why Democrats who touted the Canadian Healthcare System didn't offer such a system? I asked a few people who supported the ACA before it became law about that... their answer was about the same as yours.. they didn't know, didn't wonder, didn't care, all they knew was what was promised sounded good even tho everyone should have seen the lies as they were told, they were blinded and couldn't see the obvious lies.

YOU accuse me of being a FOX NEWS believer... I'll allow you to do so and turn the tables and claim you to be an MSNBC believer. I just bet you believed MSNBC when they claimed the African American carrying an AR15 in Arizona did so due to his RACISM against President Obama. Did you have no issue with nearly 100% of Tea Party or Conservative non profits being denied or delayed their due ruling by the IRS because you believe that Progressive groups were treated the same despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary because MSNBC or CCN said so? Do you have no issue with the administration LYING to you about the Benghazi incident as well?

Aint really matter to me what YOU believe but you aint going to accuse me of being a fool nor an idiot without me calling you out on the carpet. Check around you will find I aint afraid to call anyone out when I have been wronged in my opinion. I wont stand for someone telling me it was MY fault President Obama was elected because I refused to vote for Mr Romney due to not agreeing with his beliefs and I wont stand for your accusations either. Go check that phone bill sir and get back to me on that one.. or shoot just google "Obamaphone" as some have termed them. Find out the truth about when that program was started and who the president was and tell me that the govt wont do that to you if they believe they can do so. Google that digital converter box coupon program and explain to me how the govt wont do such a thing in the realm of providing for the general welfare. Google that luxury tax and find out exactly how that worked out.

YOU might want to wake up and see exactly what your GOVT is capable of and has done to YOU all in the name of providing for the GENERAL WELFARE. Or some other excuse.

Just so you know I have advocated for a return to Pre JFK tax rates before and will do so right here right now again. Top tax rate of over 90%... before you open that mouth you might want to have some clue of who and what you are accusing someone. Now go find out what the tax rates were pre JFK and see if you can figure out why I advocate we return to them.

find me funny of you like but the truth is the truth even if you wont bother to find out that truth.

[tv_racin_fan]

Sorry, I found it truly amusing.

Now why did you omit his funny line? This one -



People couldn't understand your question when you wiped out his funny line so I added it back in for you.

Why do you find that line funny sir?

The govt has done something similar and has proven themselves very capable of doing those exact things. AND you find that FUNNY?

I find your sence of humor something other than amusing.

[mickeyfinn]

I see you didn't understand what I said.

Let me explain it in a different fashion.

You dont have issue with paying for someone elses healthcare?

Would you have issue with paying for someone elses firearm or internet or television or automobile by GOVT mandate?

When you allow the GOVT to mandate that you not only pay for your own but a portion of someone elses healthcare what makes you think that very same govt wont decide that it should mandate you pay for your own firearm and a portion of someone elses? Internet? Television? Internet?

See that is the issue I have. IF the GOVT can decide that providing healthcare is within the realm of providing for the general welfare what is to prevent that self same govt from deciding that INTERNET or TELEVISION or AUTOMOBILE of FIREARM is not within the realm of providing for the general welfare?

Checked your PHONE bill lately? There is that GOVT providing for the general welfare I was speaking of right there on YOUR phone bill. Do you not recall when the govt issued vouchers for digital recievers for TELEVISION reception? Yep again there is that GOVT providing for the general welfare again. YOU and I pay/paid for those things the GOVT decided was within the providing for the GENERAL WELFARE realm. Tell me I am stupid for thinking that self same GOVT wont demand that YOU and I pay for something else for those less fortunate.

Does it sink in NOW sir or ma'am? DOES IT?

I see you didn't bother to go find out what happened when the GOVT decided to enact a LUXURY TAX on certain LUXURY items. Remember the "NO NEW TAXES" bit? I do, I lived during that time.. met a real nice marine carpenter who lost his job due to that LUXURY tax when he came to work for one of the bosses of the company I was working for.

Again I ask did you wonder why Democrats who touted the Canadian Healthcare System didn't offer such a system? I asked a few people who supported the ACA before it became law about that... their answer was about the same as yours.. they didn't know, didn't wonder, didn't care, all they knew was what was promised sounded good even tho everyone should have seen the lies as they were told, they were blinded and couldn't see the obvious lies.

YOU accuse me of being a FOX NEWS believer... I'll allow you to do so and turn the tables and claim you to be an MSNBC believer. I just bet you believed MSNBC when they claimed the African American carrying an AR15 in Arizona did so due to his RACISM against President Obama. Did you have no issue with nearly 100% of Tea Party or Conservative non profits being denied or delayed their due ruling by the IRS because you believe that Progressive groups were treated the same despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary because MSNBC or CCN said so? Do you have no issue with the administration LYING to you about the Benghazi incident as well?

Aint really matter to me what YOU believe but you aint going to accuse me of being a fool nor an idiot without me calling you out on the carpet. Check around you will find I aint afraid to call anyone out when I have been wronged in my opinion. I wont stand for someone telling me it was MY fault President Obama was elected because I refused to vote for Mr Romney due to not agreeing with his beliefs and I wont stand for your accusations either. Go check that phone bill sir and get back to me on that one.. or shoot just google "Obamaphone" as some have termed them. Find out the truth about when that program was started and who the president was and tell me that the govt wont do that to you if they believe they can do so. Google that digital converter box coupon program and explain to me how the govt wont do such a thing in the realm of providing for the general welfare. Google that luxury tax and find out exactly how that worked out.

YOU might want to wake up and see exactly what your GOVT is capable of and has done to YOU all in the name of providing for the GENERAL WELFARE. Or some other excuse.

Just so you know I have advocated for a return to Pre JFK tax rates before and will do so right here right now again. Top tax rate of over 90%... before you open that mouth you might want to have some clue of who and what you are accusing someone. Now go find out what the tax rates were pre JFK and see if you can figure out why I advocate we return to them.

find me funny of you like but the truth is the truth even if you wont bother to find out that truth.

How come you guys can't (try to) make a point without writing so much. I keep thinking I'm writing "long" until I get your replies.

Please, cut these responses down to a few salient points.

[tv_racin_fan]

Would you have issue with paying for someone elses firearm or internet or television or automobile by GOVT mandate?

When you allow the GOVT to mandate that you not only pay for your own but a portion of someone elses healthcare what makes you think that very same govt wont decide that it should mandate you pay for your own firearm and a portion of someone elses? Internet? Television? Telephone?

Google "Obamaphone" and the tell me the govt wont do that.

That salient enough for YOU?

[chrish]

So basically, you just tell people they are liars and then walk off. no proof. nothing to back you up.

so percentages don't matter, its about absolute dollars then? what planet do you live on? how on earth could a company the size of WellPoint, Aetna, or the like grow and survive on let see, to keep you happy I'll make up an arbitrarily low number, 10 million a year in profits? they get bigger, or smaller and still make 10 million. is that now OK, or bloodsucking?


You do realize they are mostly for profit stock held companies now. Their job is to make money for their shareholders. Do you own stock? How about any stock you have that's made MORE than 5% in any given year, you send it to the poor? This should be good.

I see your home owners insurance argument and raise you. So tomorrow, your how burns down...and you collect. Your premiums all those years don't come CLOSE to paying for the $ you just collected from your insurance company. By your own definition, now you are the bloodsucker. Stealing from the insurance company. Shame on you! You really do have no clue about insurance or the free market. None whatsoever.

As Andy Griffith said...you beat all you know it.

I'm out. Can't argue with folks unprepared to address the facts and who are completely unwilling to stay on topic. You are all over the map.

[mickeyfinn]

Nice...classy...


See, that's the difference...most folks on the right are willing to live and let live as long as you stay out of our business. The left is ready to go full on oppression and concentration camp. You just proved everybody's point.

Okay chrish, you asked for it.

I'm forwarding this RIGHT NOW to the RE-education Czar. As you well know, we have rescinded the 1st Amendment, you have no freedom of speech, buddy.

Criticism of the New America, no matter how slight or well-meaning, will not be tolerated. All political statements must be pre-approved by us. You are in violation of this tenet.

You and your family probably have 15-30 minutes to pack a few belongings before we transport you to a Re-education camp.

We will be there shortly.

Resistance is futile.

[mickeyfinn]

So basically, you just tell people they are liars and then walk off. no proof. nothing to back you up.

so percentages don't matter, its about absolute dollars then? what planet do you live on? how on earth could a company the size of WellPoint, Aetna, or the like grow and survive on let see, to keep you happy I'll make up an arbitrarily low number, 10 million a year in profits? they get bigger, or smaller and still make 10 million. is that now OK, or bloodsucking?


You do realize they are mostly for profit stock held companies now. Their job is to make money for their shareholders. Do you own stock? How about any stock you have that's made MORE than 5% in any given year, you send it to the poor? This should be good.

I see your home owners insurance argument and raise you. So tomorrow, your how burns down...and you collect. Your premiums all those years don't come CLOSE to paying for the $ you just collected from your insurance company. By your own definition, now you are the bloodsucker. Stealing from the insurance company. Shame on you! You really do have no clue about insurance or the free market. None whatsoever.

As Andy Griffith said...you beat all you know it.

I'm out. Can't argue with folks unprepared to address the facts and who are completely unwilling to stay on topic. You are all over the map.

Your rejoinder has more holes in it than swiss cheese. It's not even worth responding too. And you know it!

And now, you will just take off from the discussion with your tail between your legs like a whipped cur.

You know I am telling the truth and my holding the light of truth up to all your prevarications exposes them for what they are. Damnable lies.

[mickeyfinn]

I see you didn't understand what I said.

Let me explain it in a different fashion.

You dont have issue with paying for someone elses healthcare?

Would you have issue with paying for someone elses firearm or internet or television or automobile by GOVT mandate?

When you allow the GOVT to mandate that you not only pay for your own but a portion of someone elses healthcare what makes you think that very same govt wont decide that it should mandate you pay for your own firearm and a portion of someone elses? Internet? Television? Telephone?

See that is the issue I have. IF the GOVT can decide that providing healthcare is within the realm of providing for the general welfare what is to prevent that self same govt from deciding that INTERNET or TELEVISION or AUTOMOBILE of FIREARM is not within the realm of providing for the general welfare?

Checked your PHONE bill lately? There is that GOVT providing for the general welfare I was speaking of right there on YOUR phone bill. Do you not recall when the govt issued vouchers for digital recievers for TELEVISION reception? Yep again there is that GOVT providing for the general welfare again. YOU and I pay/paid for those things the GOVT decided was within the providing for the GENERAL WELFARE realm. Tell me I am stupid for thinking that self same GOVT wont demand that YOU and I pay for something else for those less fortunate.

Does it sink in NOW sir or ma'am? DOES IT?

I see you didn't bother to go find out what happened when the GOVT decided to enact a LUXURY TAX on certain LUXURY items. Remember the "NO NEW TAXES" bit? I do, I lived during that time.. met a real nice marine carpenter who lost his job due to that LUXURY tax when he came to work for one of the bosses of the company I was working for.

Again I ask did you wonder why Democrats who touted the Canadian Healthcare System didn't offer such a system? I asked a few people who supported the ACA before it became law about that... their answer was about the same as yours.. they didn't know, didn't wonder, didn't care, all they knew was what was promised sounded good even tho everyone should have seen the lies as they were told, they were blinded and couldn't see the obvious lies.

YOU accuse me of being a FOX NEWS believer... I'll allow you to do so and turn the tables and claim you to be an MSNBC believer. I just bet you believed MSNBC when they claimed the African American carrying an AR15 in Arizona did so due to his RACISM against President Obama. Did you have no issue with nearly 100% of Tea Party or Conservative non profits being denied or delayed their due ruling by the IRS because you believe that Progressive groups were treated the same despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary because MSNBC or CCN said so? Do you have no issue with the administration LYING to you about the Benghazi incident as well?

Aint really matter to me what YOU believe but you aint going to accuse me of being a fool nor an idiot without me calling you out on the carpet. Check around you will find I aint afraid to call anyone out when I have been wronged in my opinion. I wont stand for someone telling me it was MY fault President Obama was elected because I refused to vote for Mr Romney due to not agreeing with his beliefs and I wont stand for your accusations either. Go check that phone bill sir and get back to me on that one.. or shoot just google "Obamaphone" as some have termed them. Find out the truth about when that program was started and who the president was and tell me that the govt wont do that to you if they believe they can do so. Google that digital converter box coupon program and explain to me how the govt wont do such a thing in the realm of providing for the general welfare. Google that luxury tax and find out exactly how that worked out.

YOU might want to wake up and see exactly what your GOVT is capable of and has done to YOU all in the name of providing for the GENERAL WELFARE. Or some other excuse.

Just so you know I have advocated for a return to Pre JFK tax rates before and will do so right here right now again. Top tax rate of over 90%... before you open that mouth you might want to have some clue of who and what you are accusing someone. Now go find out what the tax rates were pre JFK and see if you can figure out why I advocate we return to them.

find me funny of you like but the truth is the truth even if you wont bother to find out that truth.

I didn't understand what you said because it makes no sense. None. Zero.

All I could get out of all your writing is you're desperately grasping at SOMETHING there, some sort of justification of SOMETHING, but I just can't figure out what the hell it is.

Oh, and we don't have a television in this house as you seem to think. 99% of what is seen on television is pure poison.

Years ago news used to be at least somewhat objective and unbiased but it no longer is.

We gave our TV away three years ago. I'll admit missed it at first. But it was just a bad habit. I'm so glad we are free of it here.

Television is evil. I'm not kidding. I defy anyone here to see if they can pull the plug just for a week. I bet no one can.

Now that we have freed ourselves from the idiot box, we do different things with our time here.

We talk to each other (I know, unheard of). We prepare meals together and eat together. We hunt together. We take walks and scout for game trails together. We read a lot.

We do get two newspapers. We are lucky enough to live near one of the few cities left in the US that has more than one newspaper. One leans right, the other leans left. We get them delivered daily.

One of my favorite things is to compare the slant each paper takes on the same stories. Talk about funny!!!!!!

We listen to the radio here. We (obviously) have the Internet too.

So you're wrong about my allowing television to poison my views.

No FOX, no MSNBC. In other words no BS.

[tv_racin_fan]

Google "Obamaphone" and the tell me the govt wont do that.

That salient enough for YOU?

[tv_racin_fan]

How much simplier do I have to make it?

[tv_racin_fan]

When you allow the GOVT to mandate that you or anyone not only pay for your/their own healthcare but also a portion of someone elses healthcare what makes you think that very same govt wont decide that it should mandate you pay for your own firearm or a portion of someone elses Internet? Television? Telephone?

[mickeyfinn]

Google "Obamaphone" and the tell me the govt wont do that.

That salient enough for YOU?

Are you kidding me? I searched for "obama phone" and "obamaphone." Lots of mentions but nothing cogent. Most of it seemed (attempted) humor based. I could not find one serious entry, not one.

But hey, we never did see Obama's birth certificate did we?

He's not a US citizen and therefore should not be President. The guy should not have been President once but twice!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

That was outrageous.

I firmly believe Obama is a muslim terrorist in Presidential clothing.

HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?