? about plating coming off feed ramp and chamber on PM9.

[jocko]

not good LDM.

PM sent

[wagon]

Did they change tollers or raw material supply? New supplier (SS billet)? New Plating company? Did any of their vendors have a process change (plating bath change? equiptment change? etc...????) and without a qualification / validation process?

Something gotta have changed, somewhere, somehow ....

[500KV]

Seems that they would just have a recall for the bad, or potentially bad, barrels.
They surely have records that would pin these down; a time frame/batch # or something.
It would sure beat the process of everyone having to examine the barrels on their own. There doesn't appear to be any plating on the chamber of my guns but the ramps do and look O.K.
Function is 100% now but what's down the road?

[Singlestack_9mm]

uh oh ... pls keep us posted.

Singlestack: have you received your latest replacement yet? If so, have you shoot it and do you have the same issue with LDM's?

I'm waiting for mine.. and may be I should just wait some more.

I got mine Monday. Shot it yesterday, same problem. The chamber started flaking within 150 rds. My first replacement barrel did the same thing so I wasn't shocked. I don't know what my next move is. I'm sure they will get it resolved someday. I'm going to use the barrel I have until we know this issue is resolved.

[LDM]

Wagon, no question you are right about something changing. Regardless of what is was that changed, either there was insufficient testing or it was a latent / intermittent problem. Good bet somebody in Worcester is having a "bad day". Fair bet the root of this goes to the jump in gun sales of last year or so.

Singlestack, we're in same boat. Your comment on keeping present barrel until sure replacement available may be the way to go. Not sure, but gonna think on that.

I have a weapon that apparently functions. I inserted a round into the chamber out of curiosity, and it went in slick enough with no apparent interference. But could further flaking cause malfunction in future? This is not a range or fun gun. It is a defense weapon, so less than a high level of confidence of function means it sits at home. And for now, it will sit at home.

It irks me that I am spending time and money (e.g. ammo, range time) on a problem I did not cause. I understand 200 round break-in, and I'd shoot that much just for my confidence and familiarization regardless. But every time I replace a part, I am going to test again for my peace of mind and confidence. So best case, I get another barrel without undue delay and then drive 30 miles to and from range, shoot a box or two of ammo (including my precious defense ammo, which is harder to find and costs way more than practice ammo!), and even as much as I enjoy shooting it takes a couple of hours within the period the range is open. I figure conservatively that best case (i.e. next barrel is perfect, a rather large assumption at this stage) it has cost me at least $100. Truly I do not believe in something for nothing, or that the world owes me anything, but Kahr ought to offset this.

Will advise by post of what I learn.

[500KV]

I basically know very little about gunsmithing but it seems to me that these stainless barrels would work just as well without the plating.
Other high end guns are either blued or stainless and have the ramp and chamber polished; at least mine are.

It may be that due to the Kahr's smaller size it's necessary to have them plated in order to function correctly, but I'd like to try one without it.
Or, then again, maybe I'm just dreaming.
What do you guys think?

[LDM]

It would be interesting to hear Kahr's rationale for plating.

Corrosion resistance is the reason I hear most, but generally that is in connection with military long weapons.

Not sure I see corrosion as an overriding design concern for typical use of a PM9.

[Singlestack_9mm]

Wagon, no question you are right about something changing. Regardless of what is was that changed, either there was insufficient testing or it was a latent / intermittent problem. Good bet somebody in Worcester is having a "bad day". Fair bet the root of this goes to the jump in gun sales of last year or so.

Singlestack, we're in same boat. Your comment on keeping present barrel until sure replacement available may be the way to go. Not sure, but gonna think on that.

I have a weapon that apparently functions. I inserted a round into the chamber out of curiosity, and it went in slick enough with no apparent interference. But could further flaking cause malfunction in future? This is not a range or fun gun. It is a defense weapon, so less than a high level of confidence of function means it sits at home. And for now, it will sit at home.

It irks me that I am spending time and money (e.g. ammo, range time) on a problem I did not cause. I understand 200 round break-in, and I'd shoot that much just for my confidence and familiarization regardless. But every time I replace a part, I am going to test again for my peace of mind and confidence. So best case, I get another barrel without undue delay and then drive 30 miles to and from range, shoot a box or two of ammo (including my precious defense ammo, which is harder to find and costs way more than practice ammo!), and even as much as I enjoy shooting it takes a couple of hours within the period the range is open. I figure conservatively that best case (i.e. next barrel is perfect, a rather large assumption at this stage) it has cost me at least $100. Truly I do not believe in something for nothing, or that the world owes me anything, but Kahr ought to offset this.

Will advise by post of what I learn.

I have been on the fence weather to bench my pm9 as my primary carry because of this problem. I bought mine in march and It's had this issue since day one. I've shot aprox. 1000rds of target and defense ammo and I've never had any problems. Kahr has told me it's ok to shoot the gun with this issue. My experience tells me that It won't cause any problems, but it leaves me with a bit of doubt that I rather not have with my primary carry gun. I'm not going to waste any more ammo testing new barrels until we get a confirmed fix, defense ammo is to hard to find. Hopefully the members here with contacts inside kahr will let us know when they get this vendor issue resolved.

[Singlestack_9mm]

It would be interesting to hear Kahr's rationale for plating.

Corrosion resistance is the reason I hear most, but generally that is in connection with military long weapons.

Not sure I see corrosion as an overriding design concern for typical use of a PM9.

I have a friend thats knowledgeable about metals. He told me nickel is used in heavy wear applications, its extremely hard and durable. It's used inside engines on cylinder walls in military vehicles. I'm guessing the plating is ment to be a durability enhancement.

[wagon]

I don't know if this is at all possible other than you got someone in the profession to strip the plated coating from the barrel.

It may be that due to the Kahr's smaller size it's necessary to have them plated in order to function correctly, but I'd like to try one without it.
Or, then again, maybe I'm just dreaming.
What do you guys think?

[wagon]

Yup - if done right.. when Bimmer launched their small block V8 in their 5 series back in the early 90's, they were called "Nickelsil" plated. They were of a bad design and process, that been given them tons of problems, BMW had to replace those engines... rest is history. The V8 they replaced the Nickelsil with just run perfect.

I have a friend thats knowledgeable about metals. He told me nickel is used in heavy wear applications, its extremely hard and durable. It's used inside engines on cylinder walls in military vehicles. I'm guessing the plating is ment to be a durability enhancement.

[jocko]

now that

I don't know if this is at all possible other than you got someone in the profession to strip the plated coating from the barrel.

makes zero sense, strip the plating. WTf. Khar has nickel plated their barrels for over 15 years and this to my knowledge is the first time this flaking has come up. Give um aliitte slack here guys, this is a vendor thing and I can see how it could have slipped through the cracks. I am sure there are still more barrels out there that will flake until this is all settled. Nickel plating is in the thousands of inches thickness, I seriously doubt and I have not read of anyone having any reliability issue with this flaking thing, so why "bench" it. Makes zero sense to me.

they will get this issue solved. I am sure it is not something that one phone call can solve with the vendors either. It could go down chain of custody even to the materials the vendor has been buying and from whom he has been buying it from to a definitely vendor issue. Kahr has told me in no uncertain stances it is a vendor issue . Doesn't relieve them of the responsibility either, but once these bad barrels get in the hands of the shooters only feed back will get them a new barrel. It is not a safety issue to insue a recall but a cosmetic issue that kahr has told me that they will take care of every returned barrel that is flaking.

I sure in hell would not bench my PM9 over that and to even think of taking the nickel plating off the barrel is even more ridiculous IMO. Not even sure it can be done.

I don't know this for a fact but I am sure other gun companies nickel plate their barrels also. this is not a cheap process either so I would think kahr is doing this not for cosmetic reasons but for better reliability and longevity reasons.

Just my two cents worth here but give this some time to work out. No doubt kahr is more concerned about it than probalby we are.

bottom line if u truly can't live with this, then indeed trade the gun off and get one that is not nickel plated. No doubt 99% of all dealers could not answer that question of "is this certain gun nickel plated barrel" either.
Stainless will rust also......

[jocko]

Indeed

Wagon, no question you are right about something changing. Regardless of what is was that changed, either there was insufficient testing or it was a latent / intermittent problem. Good bet somebody in Worcester is having a "bad day". Fair bet the root of this goes to the jump in gun sales of last year or so.

Singlestack, we're in same boat. Your comment on keeping present barrel until sure replacement available may be the way to go. Not sure, but gonna think on that.

I have a weapon that apparently functions. I inserted a round into the chamber out of curiosity, and it went in slick enough with no apparent interference. But could further flaking cause malfunction in future? This is not a range or fun gun. It is a defense weapon, so less than a high level of confidence of function means it sits at home. And for now, it will sit at home.

It irks me that I am spending time and money (e.g. ammo, range time) on a problem I did not cause. I understand 200 round break-in, and I'd shoot that much just for my confidence and familiarization regardless. But every time I replace a part, I am going to test again for my peace of mind and confidence. So best case, I get another barrel without undue delay and then drive 30 miles to and from range, shoot a box or two of ammo (including my precious defense ammo, which is harder to find and costs way more than practice ammo!), and even as much as I enjoy shooting it takes a couple of hours within the period the range is open. I figure conservatively that best case (i.e. next barrel is perfect, a rather large assumption at this stage) it has cost me at least $100. Truly I do not believe in something for nothing, or that the world owes me anything, but Kahr ought to offset this.

Will advise by post of what I learn.

u should always test out when a part is changed. Not sure the 200 round thing comes into play with this barrel change either. but I would definitely test it out. Same thing with even a change of recoil springs or magazine springs.

[LDM]

I bought mine in march and It's had this issue since day one. I've shot aprox. 1000rds of target and defense ammo and I've never had any problems. Kahr has told me it's ok to shoot the gun with this issue. My experience tells me that It won't cause any problems...

"ok to shoot" that is my first twitch also. The notion of waiting until there is some assurance of a fix is starting to set in my mind. I look at it this way: at least if I keep the barrel until there is a fix, I have a complete weapon that in limited testing functions well.

But the flaking just ain't right and this is a premium product. Common sense says they have to fix, replace, or in some way mitigate.

The backstory on this must be a whopper; bet you a dollar there's a lawyer in there somewhere.

Are there any reports of other Kahr models having this problem? And if not, why? Is the PM9 barrel that different than the other models?

[jocko]

maybe

"ok to shoot" that is my first twitch also. The notion of waiting until there is some assurance of a fix is starting to set in my mind. I look at it this way: at least if I keep the barrel until there is a fix, I have a complete weapon that in limited testing functions well.

But the flaking just ain't right and this is a premium product. Common sense says they have to fix, replace, or in some way mitigate.

The backstory on this must be a whopper; bet you a dollar there's a lawyer in there somewhere.

Are there any reports of other Kahr models having this problem? And if not, why? Is the PM9 barrel that different than the other models?

different plating vendor. these companies don't put all their eggs in one basket and it is also not a pandemic issue either. Last conversation I had with a kahr insider, he told me they have not had 2 dozen barrels reported to them with flaking issues. Not to say they ain't out there either and when it happens to you, it is never a good thing. You can get mad, pound the table or also just work with kahr and they will make it right. Don't expect a reimburement of money for ur inconvience, that ain't gonna happen but I have no doubt all flaking barrels will be replaced. I have had vehicle recalls on about every vehicle I have owned. never got a dime from the mfg-er for it, let along any inconvenice either, just the defective part replaced and I had to get my vehicle to the dealer etc.

I remember when Ruger had their lcp recall this year on over 50,000 lcp's, they started out at first sending the rebuilt lcp's back with a ruger lcp hat and a spare magazine, then not to long after that. no hat, then later on no hat or magazine. Many owners back then never even sent their lcp's in for the recall as it was working perfect and they felt OK with the way it was.

I am not totally sure even how they would be able to detect a flaking barrel issue, if when it left the factory,it was not flaking. Not sure inspection can catch that type of thing. Probably only rounds down range... If ur old enough to remember the days of chrome bumpers, alot of them the chrome flaked/chipped off and back then there was no such thing as a recall. again i am not defending kahr, the vendors or who ever on this, but it has happened, we will get through it, again it is not pandemic. Because yours now is not flaking, is that a need to worry down the road??? A question that only you can answer. No sense worrying about something that has not happened. Just shoot it like u stole it . I would hate to guess how many hundreds of thousands kahrs there are out there that up until now has never had this flaking issue. percentages tell me your kahr is OK..