New PM45 Range Test

[Vinikahr]

Thanks, guys. I'm sure glad to have the .45 back. I kind of feel guilty about shooting it better than the PM9. I don't know why, but it just seems easier to shoot and hit where I want with the .45!

I used a 1.75" bike tube and cut it a bit longer than the first try. It's perfect now. I wore my glove for most of the shooting because of my "wound." The tube doesn't clash with my sense of aesthetics or whatever.

Did any of you guys that sent in your guns for repair get a notice that it was being shipped back? I expected notice and tracking info since an adult signature was needed for delivery. I was lucky that my wife was in the house and signed for me. I guess they would have let me sign for it, had I been awake and answered the door. I kind of LOOK like an adult. Not everybody is retired and at home most of the time, though.

I'll check out the "stripper" to see if they beveled that a bit... it could be, but it's hard to tell until I strip it and clean it. That Wolf ammo is nasty stuff. I think that I had put the camera away before I started shooting that. I can't wait to get the stink of that stuff off my gun, but I have to start cooking soon and I need to clean off my desk/work table and turn it into the dining table again. Prime rib tonight for my wife and corned beef tomorrow night -- St. Patty's Day.
I only cook real meals when she's off. She's gonna have five days off soon and I'll be busy -- got to go out some!
Hasta la vista, amigos.
Wynn

That is a reason why I am .45 guy!:86:

[wyntrout]

Monsieur Silhouette is a little worse for wear, but he'll do for at least one more trip to the range after I patch up all of those Wolf bullet holes. That will be some major patchwork. I finally started cutting up my 58" Samsung Plasma TV box -- lots of nice thick card board, though it can bite you if you're not careful. Those dang coups de papier can be painful.
Well, I have to start the prime rib and then clean off the "dining table". I have a nice inexpensive($13 at Total Wine) Bourdeaux Supérieur ready to come out of the wine cooler to go with it -- 2005 Chateau de Camarsac, aged in Oak for 8 months. I love California and Australian wine, but zee French know how to make the superb dry reds.
Later.
Wynn

Oh, I don't think all of the ejected cases are coming back at me anymore. I did wear a Kahr hat on this outing, though... and my shooting glasses... and earplugs... and a good set of "earmuff' protectors. I don't need to lose any more of my hearing.

[Bawanna]

Oh, I don't think all of the ejected cases are coming back at me anymore. I did wear a Kahr hat on this outing, though... and my shooting glasses... and earplugs... and a good set of "earmuff' protectors. I don't need to lose any more of my hearing.[/QUOTE]

And just when we had the maxi pad bandana system all figured out. Well I guess I'll throw that future business venture idea in the trash can.
I'll have to throw my holy water bullet scheme out sometime to test the waters. I think it might just fly.

[kramm]

Mr. Wynn, glad you had a good trip to the range. I haven't heard any thing from Kahr. I'm retired and home . Get up kinda early so if they come I'm here waiting. Sure hope mine is up and running soon.

[tomwalshco]

So what is the final verdict on the feed issues? Magazines?

The pics make it appear that the slide is not retracting far enough. Maybe something was causing it to stop prematurely before it reached full open. But then, the slide stop wouldn't engage. curious...

I'm seriously thinking of selling my Glock 36 and getting a PM45, but this makes me rethink. If this truely is a design flaw issue there would be PM45 owners screaming on every gun forum on the net.

I remember a similar issue with a Kel-Tec model a while back and someone came up with the idea of straightening a paper clip and running it up inside the back of the mag, forcing the round to sit just enough forward so the stripper lug would grab it as it moved forward.

[jeep45238]

The pics make it appear that the slide is not retracting far enough. Maybe something was causing it to stop prematurely before it reached full open. But then, the slide stop wouldn't engage. curious...

That's what has me intrigued.

The slide in the PM45's that we've seen here for the most part either don't work, or notch the metal in the slide between the guide rod hole and the barrel hole, or run 100% AFTER that notch is made.

Me thinks that Kahr hasn't fully machined the slide, which is causing it to bottom out against the guide rod, which is causing many failures to feed/eject/lock back.

[tomwalshco]

Good points. Maybe he had the wrong recoil springs installed in there that when fully compressed, the slide would still not retract all the way back. Might have been P45 springs which has a slightly longer barrel, possibly another coil longer???

[tomwalshco]

The guy assembling the PM45s may be sitting next to the guy assembling the P45s and if he drops a recoil spring on the floor, who could tell the difference ????

But that doesn't make sense either because in the slide lock position, the lug/breech face still doesn't reach the back of the round. Never mind, i guess....

[jeep45238]

The guy assembling the PM45s may be sitting next to the guy assembling the P45s and if he drops a recoil spring on the floor, who could tell the difference ????

Easy peasy - first, seperate the work stations with some sort of small barrier to reduce/eliminate that.

Second, take the closed ends of the unknown and a known spring, and hold them together. See if the diameter matches.

Third, take the unknown spring and measure the thickness of the wire, and put it closed end on your work table right against a known spring and look at uncompressed height. If that is the same, good.

While they are standing, orient the open end of each spring 180* opposite (i.e. one at 6, one at 12). Each coil should be touching it's 'mate' on the unknown spring if they are the same.







Couldn't resist

[gb6491]

I remember a similar issue with a Kel-Tec model a while back and someone came up with the idea of straightening a paper clip and running it up inside the back of the mag, forcing the round to sit just enough forward so the stripper lug would grab it as it moved forward.

The "paper clip in the back of the magazine" fix is known a "Flyer wire". It does indeed force the rounds to sit further forward in the magazine, but it's purpose is to prevent "rimlock" when using hollow point ammo (shorter OAL) in the KT P32. KT now sells an adapter kit for the P32 magazines.

The guy assembling the PM45s may be sitting next to the guy assembling the P45s and if he drops a recoil spring on the floor, who could tell the difference ????

My CW45 had the same issue.

But that doesn't make sense either because in the slide lock position, the lug/breech face still doesn't reach the back of the round. Never mind, i guess....

Correct, it's at the slide lock position where the problem occurs. This is pretty much independent of spring length (I've checked with the guide rod and spring removed).
Regards,
Greg

[wyntrout]

No, the issue was not magazines. They replaced my ejector which was one possible contributor to the NO GAP between the rear of the top cartridge in a FULL magazine and the forward face of the striker housing and the "stripper" part. The repaired gun has a small gap with all full magazines and there are no feeding issues. I include photos of the before and after "stripper" because they definitely beveled it, but there would be a gap without the bevel. This is most important when trying to chamber the first round of a full magazine. Pulling the slide to the rear and releasing it would have overcome the no-gap problem since there is one with the slide all the way to the rear.
I put the short bike tube on the PM9 and it fits. Without looking at the BORE, they look very similar now.
As I stated, in firing 110 rounds yesterday, I had one failure to feed at round #100 and I think it was just the soot from the nasty, stink, smoky Wolf ammo. I wiped the ramp a little with a Q-tip and pressed on... no problems.
I notice that there is a difference in the slides, besides the bevel near the muzzle of the two PMs.
Wynn

[Bawanna]

Wouldn't that bevel push the top cartridge in the magazine forward enough to create that gap? With out it the top round would just hit that edge and may or may not get routed where it belongs. I think that little bevel is the cure. Sling shot mode would force that sharp corner behind the rim of the top round and all would be well. Followup rounds would work the same way since the slide is going full rear each shot.
I'm just glad it seems to work for ya now.

[jeep45238]

Wouldn't that bevel push the top cartridge in the magazine forward enough to create that gap? With out it the top round would just hit that edge and may or may not get routed where it belongs. I think that little bevel is the cure. Sling shot mode would force that sharp corner behind the rim of the top round and all would be well. Followup rounds would work the same way since the slide is going full rear each shot.
I'm just glad it seems to work for ya now.

Shouldn't push the mag, it creates a vertical gap and rearward longitudinal gap, allowing it to clear.

I suspect of it as a permanent fix if the mag springs weaken on the last shot. The pessimistic in me sees it pushing the round into the mag long term, not into the feed ramp.

[gb6491]

No, the issue was not magazines. They replaced my ejector which was one possible contributor to the NO GAP between the rear of the top cartridge in a FULL magazine and the forward face of the striker housing and the "stripper" part. The repaired gun has a small gap with all full magazines and there are no feeding issues. I include photos of the before and after "stripper" because they definitely beveled it, but there would be a gap without the bevel. This is most important when trying to chamber the first round of a full magazine. Pulling the slide to the rear and releasing it would have overcome the no-gap problem since there is one with the slide all the way to the rear.

I pretty confident that the bevel is the fix. If you slowly insert a loaded magazine (with rounds seated fully rearward) into the pistol, you should see that the rim still comes up under the part of the slide that strips the round. Then it hits the the bevel and moves forward of the breech face; there will be a gap between the round and the slide at this point (at least that's how it works with my CW45).
Whatever the fix, I'm glad they got it working for you
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

It wouldn't push the mag which would be a bad thing but it should push the cartridge itself forward to clear the breach face.