Why do people like +P ammo?

[Bawanna]

I'm ashamed to admit, I don't get it? Is this a hip hop thing? What's a Nigel Tufnel.

Some times it sucks to be dumb.

[Manzanita]

I'm ashamed to admit, I don't get it? Is this a hip hop thing? What's a Nigel Tufnel.

I'd post a YouTube link but I'm on my iPod in a university tv studio goofing off during lulls in production. If you go to YouTube and search for "these go to eleven", you'll find the Spinal Tap excerpt and all will be made clear.

[jg rider]

OK Men!

I just read all the posts and the theme seems to be "I like," "I shoot," "I don't," "I prefer," "for me it's," etc.
I started to have visions of our embarrassment and chief, "I, I, I, me, me, me."
Do any of you have wives or partners, etc, that carry or shoot, and may not be able to accurately control hot loads out of a small hand gun?

As the OP of this thread, I provided links to our test results and L.E. results of standard pressure ammo that show penetration and expansion to be as good as +p ammo, and meet FBI standards. I wanted results that followed some of the FBI criteria of first penetration and then expansion. Now as a civilian, the only results that mattered to me were penetration and expansion into clothing and torso.

Our results showed standard 147 Win. RA9T and Fed. 147 HST to be 100% penetration and expansion reliable, with the least felt recoil. And still met the FBI standards.

I used my wife as the test subject. Many years ago we competed in practical pistol matches at it's beginning with .45s. Back then the round needed to match the military power factor. So she's no stranger to recoil.
Her double taps between shot times were about .18 second with A zone hits at 7 yds. But that's with a heavy 1911 Govt. model.

When we were looking for a load for our lighter K9 or PM9 concealed carry guns, we tested +p ammo also, and she had trouble doing fast, controlled double an triple taps accurately, she had misses. She practices about 3x a week which is much more then most men do. And she was still having trouble.
When she decided on the 147 gr. Win. and Fed. stuff, things got different. She now does .21- .31 sec. double tap shot splits at 8" steel plates from 7 yds. And under 5 sec. at 5 steel plates at 10 yds. from out of a holster.

A drill she likes to do is aim at a target, close her eyes and fire. Then looks to see where the sights land after recoil.
Muscle memory.

You men may be able to handle the +p stuff,
But I ask again:
Do any of you have wives or partners, etc, that carry or shoot, and may not be able to accurately control hot loads out of a small hand gun?

Now I'll go away before the verbal abuses starts.

[JFootin]

jg, this is a good subject. I have very small, crippled hands—probably weaker than most women's hands. So I am very interested and will try some of that 147 gr ammo. Thank you!

[jocko]

hell u ain't gonna get any verbal abuses here, my friend. ur points IMO concerningur wife was excellent. I never thought about any of that stuff eithe.r It has to drip over to men to. I don't do timing stuff with double taps etc, but i just makes sense that hotter ammo is gonna be more challenging in the double tap area. . Normally my first shot is directly through the heart

Being my PM9 is mag na ported, it is smooth as jellow it seems with any rounds, hot or cold

[O'Dell]

I'm ashamed to admit, I don't get it? Is this a hip hop thing? What's a Nigel Tufnel.

Some times it sucks to be dumb.

I'm with you, Bawanna on hip-hop and the 45 acp. With hip-hop I don't consider it dumb - just intentionally intellectually uninformed.

I dumped [mostly accidentally] all my 9mm's except the PM9 because I needed at least one pocket gun. However, if I had it to do over again it would be a PM40. I don't talk about the LCP because it was given to me. My current inventory of pistols is one 380 [ugh], one 9mm [almost ugh], three 40's with one on the trading block [I won't part with the HK40 or MK40], and eleven 45's.

I know I've said it before but "a 9mm may not expand, but a 45 will never shrink".

[chrish]

jg_rider,

i am most certainly a man, but i don't shoot +p in anything. i agree with your points and do not see the point to shooting +p. to each his own i suppose.

if bullet technology was still what it was 20 years ago, maybe. but every single test i've seen of 147gr SD rounds of multiple manufacturers leads me to the conclusion that they are MORE than adequate, reliable, etc. i like the way they shoot better, i shoot them better than anything +p. i'm sticking w/ them.

i stocked up on winchester super-x 147gr FMJ here recently (flat nosed stuff) for target/plinking/training. i carry the pdx1 147gr. will probably now begin socking away a pile of 147gr aluminum blazers for super cheap shooting.

not that i don't throw my fair share of 115gr plinking stuff down-range, but only when that's all i can get my hands on.

[jg rider]

hell u ain't gonna get any verbal abuses here, my friend. ur points IMO concerningur wife was excellent. I never thought about any of that stuff eithe.r It has to drip over to men to. I don't do timing stuff with double taps etc, but i just makes sense that hotter ammo is gonna be more challenging in the double tap area. . Normally my first shot is directly through the heart

Being my PM9 is mag na ported, it is smooth as jellow it seems with any rounds, hot or cold

Jocko, you really have a magna ported PM9? Do you have any pictures

[jocko]

go to the serach section and hit on Jocko's custom PM9. it will pop up. maybe somenice member will make a shortcut for u, as I am lame to that sh!t. Love my PM9 ported. Love my K9 ported, Love myu G19 ported. Magna port would not portmy P3809 or I would love it to. I think Jeepster has more ported kahrs than I do, he picutres them alot..

oo-[s forgot love my ported Model 60, vitage 1970's

[Bawanna]

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t...cko%27s+custom

Ask and ye shall receive.

I have a Magna Ported K40 but only the one. My PM45 will get it someday but it really don't need it. Looks cool though and looking cool is my life.

[wyntrout]

Hey, Jocko. I could port your P380 with my DLT. I have lots of attachments that I haven't tried out. I could clamp that baby in a vise and port the heck out of it... low cost!

Wynn

[OldLincoln]

I'm always at a loss when we discuss the +P subject. Over and over it's stated that is is a personal preference and it really is. I don't care what you carry and only hope you have the confidence that you are doing the right thing for you.

As for me, I carry 147gn +P. Some will argue that the +P is not good while others that 124gn is better than 147gn. What's funny is often similar speaking folks will go ape over a new round that's 100ft/sec faster or penetrates better, etc. The one thing I'm concerned about once I pull the trigger is will it penetrate enough, not too much.

I bought the PM9 as a pocket carry to replace a 380 because I became convinced I need bigger. I would have gone to 45 except for the pocket carry aspect. However, once I had it for a while I decided it was simply too big for my pockets and went IWB. Now, of course I wish I had got a 45 to begin with.

Stopping power may be a myth but (a big one) when discussing what does stop an assailant it usually comes down to the damage done internally, including shot placement, expansion and penetration. Will a 45 do more damage than a 9mm? After all those bad guys I've shot over the years, I have to say beats me, because I haven't shot even one, well except myself when a kid but that don't count (didn't hurt much and too embarrassed to even tell my folks). Point is I doubt any of us know from personal experience what is the best round, so we read and speculate and form opinions.

I carry my opinion and you carry yours. I won't be swayed and won't try to sway you. Like the old West, "ya gotta do what's right for yerself, Pilgrim."

[jg rider]

go to the serach section and hit on Jocko's custom PM9. it will pop up. maybe somenice member will make a shortcut for u, as I am lame to that sh!t. Love my PM9 ported. Love my K9 ported, Love myu G19 ported. Magna port would not portmy P3809 or I would love it to. I think Jeepster has more ported kahrs than I do, he picutres them alot..

oo-[s forgot love my ported Model 60, vitage 1970's

Sorry Jocko I couldn't find it.
I once had a freakish magna ported 1911.

Many years ago Massad Ayoob wrote an article about magna porting a 1911, and how after it felt like a .380.
So I took a 1911 5" barrel and had it magna ported by ? Kelly? Then I modified the barrel to fit into my Colt Commander. The barrel stuck out 3/4" from the slide.
IMO, Ayoob's .380 comparison was exaggerated, it felt more like a light 9mm load. But still effective in matches. This was before compensators became popular.
Besides the gas redirect, the theory was that the shorter lighter slide caused less felt recoil when coming back against the hand. And the longer govt. barrel didn't require me to to make hotter loads to make major power.
I've been sorry for long time for selling that barrel. It was a conversation piece.

Now I have a compensated .45 1911 govt. model slide with a 1/2" cut off and a dual port compensator

[Bawanna]

Exactly correct Old Lincoln, it's all about what you are confident with. Most will never use their gun in anger, most people will never lose their house to fire but we still carry guns, and have fire departments and extinguishers.

Just a note, not to sway or convince anyone of anything.

Last night we had an attempted suicide. Fella tried a few times before with different methods. Last night he shot himself in the chest with a 9mm. Didn't work again. He lived.

Not sure what bullet he used, if he loaded from slide lock or sling shot. Don't know if he ported the fokker but he shot it like he stole it apparently without success. I do know it was one of them Perfection tupperware guns, not a Kahr. Somethings are just meant to be I guess.

[jg rider]

I'm always at a loss when we discuss the +P subject. Over and over it's stated that is is a personal preference and it really is. I don't care what you carry and only hope you have the confidence that you are doing the right thing for you.

As for me, I carry 147gn +P. Some will argue that the +P is not good while others that 124gn is better than 147gn. What's funny is often similar speaking folks will go ape over a new round that's 100ft/sec faster or penetrates better, etc. The one thing I'm concerned about once I pull the trigger is will it penetrate enough, not too much.

I bought the PM9 as a pocket carry to replace a 380 because I became convinced I need bigger. I would have gone to 45 except for the pocket carry aspect. However, once I had it for a while I decided it was simply too big for my pockets and went IWB. Now, of course I wish I had got a 45 to begin with.

Stopping power may be a myth but (a big one) when discussing what does stop an assailant it usually comes down to the damage done internally, including shot placement, expansion and penetration. Will a 45 do more damage than a 9mm? After all those bad guys I've shot over the years, I have to say beats me, because I haven't shot even one, well except myself when a kid but that don't count (didn't hurt much and too embarrassed to even tell my folks). Point is I doubt any of us know from personal experience what is the best round, so we read and speculate and form opinions.

I carry my opinion and you carry yours. I won't be swayed and won't try to sway you. Like the old West, "ya gotta do what's right for yerself, Pilgrim."

I hope you don't think that I was trying to change your opinion.
The objective of my post was to ask if the men that posted had considered what would be good for their wives and such to use. I was relaying what was needed for my wife even though she's an excellent shooter.
I also was relaying what our and others tests showed.
There I go with the "I," "I," "I"